Comparison Tier IV Questions For Messicks

[CincyFlyer]

All you need to know about servicing your Kubota DPF but we’re afraid to ask......

http://www.kubotaengine.com/assets/...ter Handling Manual_Sept_2013_9Y111-07332.pdf

When I was looking for a Mini-Ex, I went to the Kubota dealer to try one out. It was a cold January day and right after starting it up it went into regeneration mode. Forty five minutes later I left because it just kept going. They had to tow it inside and heat up the machine to get it to finish. Not a good showing and not sure how this could be attributed to “90% of problems being operator error”.

I ended up with a Bobcat that doesn’t have a DPF. I don’t have to run it at high rpm which makes for a much smoother machine IMHO.

That's the problem with DPF; they need heat to regenerate ("self-cleaning oven cycle"). They ought to give you two filters and a burn-out furnace, so you can just swap 'em out as they do in some industries.

 

[s219]

S219

Stage lllb and interim tier 4 were identical in emission requirements.

The reason I was asking is that Tier III was only for 75 HP and up between 2008-2011 and I am wondering what Kubota fit into that range. Would have to be a big one!

 

[Milo]

My friend experienced this with his new JD a couple years back (3047?) not sure if the number's correct but it was around 47 hp with a turbo. It was explained to him these newer tractors "like to run at higher rpm" and doing so will cut back on the re-gen frequency. He ran it for a year but never warmed up to the extra fuel it used having to run higher rpm and going through the occasional re-gen, so sold it after finding a similar like new older version. He's happy now running the loader with this one around 1,600 rpm, likes how it feels and sounds at lower rpm as well as it using less fuel.

So with the Tier DPF, you must run the engine at a much higher RPM and burn more fuel to improve the air quality? It doesn't make sense. Of course not much that the government mandates makes sense. :confused3:

The biggest waste would be running the tractor at or near PTO speed while operating the backhoe. I have never required or wanted the tractor engine to run at that high of RPM while using a backhoe on any tractor.

 

[3930dave]

My friend experienced this with his new JD a couple years back (3047?) not sure if the number's correct but it was around 47 hp with a turbo. It was explained to him these newer tractors "like to run at higher rpm" and doing so will cut back on the re-gen frequency. He ran it for a year but never warmed up to the extra fuel it used having to run higher rpm and going through the occasional re-gen, so sold it after finding a similar like new older version. He's happy now running the loader with this one around 1,600 rpm, likes how it feels and sounds at lower rpm as well as it using less fuel.

High torque at Low RPM ?

What is this witchcraft thou spake ?

Rgds, D.

 

[sloeffle]

An old time farmer told me this a long time ago. A diesel engine should either be turned off or running pretty close to full throttle. I've heard this from the other people who make a living sitting in the cab of tractor most of the day. Even the sticker below the key on my former 1997 JD 770 says to keep the RPM's between 1200 - 1500 for normal work. I try to limit my idling time on my new tractor that has a DPF.

 

[jeff9366]

Originally Posted by MessickFarmEqu

The number your looking for is 19KW which is 25.5 HP if your scientific about it.

All the models you listed are Tier 4 compliant, all tractors today have to be. However the requirements differ depending on the HP range, and under this magic number no DPF is required to scrub the soot from the exhaust.



I get the first part.

B2601 specs 25.5 horsepower, right on the demarcation line. or OVER, if 19KW is interpreted as 25.479 horsepower.

B2601: Tier IV (or) NOT Tier IV? DPF?



B2650 specs 26 horsepower, clearly requiring Tier IV emission controls.

Does B2650 have DPF? (or) What is unique about B2650 that kubota can achieve Tier IV emission standards without a DPF?

Apparently (??) Kubota found a way to reduce particulate matter exhaust from the small displacement B2601 and B2650 engines so they meet Tire IV requirements with engineering/technology omitting a Diesel Particulate Filter. (DPF)


Can anyone expand on this?

These questions remain a riddle to me. These question resurface here periodically.

 

[JerryK]

My take on it is that the smaller 3 cyl indirect injected motors are able to meet the emissions requirements without the added exhaust treatment. All the chart is really saying is that ' a certain group of HP rated motors ' must meet the requirements at ' said date '. They do not mandate that the motor must have X, Y, or Z on them to meet these requirements at a certain date, they just have to meet them.

 

[majorwager]

See Post 23, Jerry K's above post is exactly correct Even applies to 3 cyl. 100 gross hp. The last scenario anyone would expect, is for jeffy to be riddled.


USE the CAFE standards as another example. The Government mandates that Manufacturers attain a certain average MPG across their platform. It doesn't matter how this average is attained as long as, in conjunction w/ meeting crash test standards, the manufacturer attains the required average MPG ratings
.

Again the emissions equipment is not mandated by the government, THE EXHAUST EMISSIONS are the subject of the law. That is why EGR w/ DOC or DPF w/ High Pressure Fuel Rail Delivery are utilized at the discretion of the engine builder. Some of these 3 cylinder designs are very environmentally friendly and easily tuned and modified to meet or exceed legal requirements.

The catalytic converter is NOT required on gasoline engines. However it is the simplest means to achieve emissions standards. IF the manufacturer elects any system, gasoline or diesel, then it becomes a legal requirement to maintain the efficiency of said system.

 

[jeff9366]

I understand now; Part 1 and Part 2.

Thank you.

 

[ThirdMan]

Is there information online about what exact engine is in the B2650? The Kubota brochure lists it as D1305-E4-D26-R with 19.4 kW at 2500 RPM. I found an engine brochure for the D1305-E4B which is stated to be 18.5 kW at 2600 RPM. None of the 05 series engines on the Kubota Engine website are rated over 19 kW. They appear to only use this exact engine in their own tractors.

They are also getting ready for Tier V engines and have a page on what to expect.