Tiller choice

/ Tiller choice #1  

Boondox

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2000
Messages
3,884
Location
Craftsbury Common, Vermont
Tractor
Deere 4044R cab, Kubota KX-121-3S
I’ve been in the market for a used tiller for my JD 4044R. With 34hp at the PTO it could handle a five footer. Six would be pushing it. This weekend I’m going to look at two.

The first is a new Frontier RT3049 for $2200. At only four foot width it’s narrower than I want, but the tractor could easily handle the load in the heaviest soil. The 30 series is pretty beefy.

The other is a nine year old Kuhn EL32-150 that’s seen very little use. It still has paint on about half the length of the tines and has been well maintained. Price is $2500

Tough choice!
 
/ Tiller choice #2  
I have a JD 3720 which is about the same horsepower as the 4044 (probably a little less). I have a Ansung 74" tiller on it and it handles it well. If I put the tiller all the way down, it will slow the engine down. I do use it a lot and I'm on my 3rd set of blades. But it hasn't always been used on my JD 3720.

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/ Tiller choice #3  
I’ve been in the market for a used tiller for my JD 4044R. With 34hp at the PTO it could handle a five footer. Six would be pushing it. This weekend I’m going to look at two.

The first is a new Frontier RT3049 for $2200. At only four foot width it’s narrower than I want, but the tractor could easily handle the load in the heaviest soil. The 30 series is pretty beefy.

The other is a nine year old Kuhn EL32-150 that’s seen very little use. It still has paint on about half the length of the tines and has been well maintained. Price is $2500

Tough choice!
Not for me, I'd grab the Kuhn!

SR
 
/ Tiller choice #5  
I’ve been in the market for a used tiller for my JD 4044R. With 34hp at the PTO it could handle a five footer. Six would be pushing it. This weekend I’m going to look at two.

The first is a new Frontier RT3049 for $2200. At only four foot width it’s narrower than I want, but the tractor could easily handle the load in the heaviest soil. The 30 series is pretty beefy.

The other is a nine year old Kuhn EL32-150 that’s seen very little use. It still has paint on about half the length of the tines and has been well maintained. Price is $2500

Tough choice!

First thing to consider is the width of your rear tire track. You want the tiller to at least cover your tracks and leave a smooth seedbed behind you. So what's that dimension? In most cases, I think the best tiller for any given tractor is the rear width plus about 6 inches.

Compare any of the used ones to new King Kutter models. They really make a great tiller.
 
/ Tiller choice
  • Thread Starter
#6  
First thing to consider is the width of your rear tire track. You want the tiller to at least cover your tracks and leave a smooth seedbed behind you. So what's that dimension? In most cases, I think the best tiller for any given tractor is the rear width plus about 6 inches.

Compare any of the used ones to new King Kutter models. They really make a great tiller.
I’d need a six footer to cover my tracks, but that width requires just a bit more PTO HP than I have. That, coupled with our heavy clay soil, has me worried that it might be too much for the JD. A five footer covers half my wheel width while not overtaxing the tractor, which I could live with
 
/ Tiller choice #7  
I’d need a six footer to cover my tracks, but that width requires just a bit more PTO HP than I have. That, coupled with our heavy clay soil, has me worried that it might be too much for the JD. A five footer covers half my wheel width while not overtaxing the tractor, which I could live with

Have you used a 3-point tiller before? If it's not as wide as your tires, you are constantly trying to work to one side or clean up tracks. Every pass leaves compressed tire tracks in otherwise loose fluffy soil. Even in clay . . .

I run a 5' King Kutter behind a B-series 30 HP Kubota. It's perfect. Handles it fine. In sod or any soil. With any tiller, you'll be in low range, first gear, 4 wheel drive, and crawling slow. I'm sure yours would handle more than my small Kubota.

As far as brand, I've run Kubota, Befco, Land Pride, and a couple really off-brands. The yellow King Kutter that I bought from TSC 22 years ago has been bullet-proof and does a fantastic job. (And I haven't babied it!)
 
/ Tiller choice #8  
I’d need a six footer to cover my tracks, but that width requires just a bit more PTO HP than I have. That, coupled with our heavy clay soil, has me worried that it might be too much for the JD. A five footer covers half my wheel width while not overtaxing the tractor, which I could live with

Short answer should have been -- "Then get the 6 footer." Your tractor can handle it.
 
/ Tiller choice #9  
Short answer should have been -- "Then get the 6 footer." Your tractor can handle it.

That just isn't true in all cases, it depends on what tiller and what conditions it will be used in!

You put a 35 hp tractor on my 6' tiller and it won't be too long, and the tractor will be running too hot!

SR
 
/ Tiller choice #10  
I’d need a six footer to cover my tracks, but that width requires just a bit more PTO HP than I have.

Most tillers can be off set a bit to cover one track of the tractor and that works just fine. You just have to plan how you go around the field to make it work,

SR
 
/ Tiller choice #11  
Here's a nice read with visuals:

 
/ Tiller choice #12  
4 or 6 tines per flange? This will also contribute to how much HP it will actually require.
 
/ Tiller choice #14  
I don't think a 6' tiller would be a problem at all. I use a 60" behind my JD 2520, which is about 25hp, and it has plenty of power. I actually for a hobby till peoples' gardens through the area with it. Heck, I'd think my 2520 could handle a 72", power-wise. You'll thank yourself so, so much in the future if you but a tiller that at least is wider than your tractor's tire track width.
 
/ Tiller choice #15  
Also, tine "speed" makes a huge difference!

There are a few other things too...

SR

Help me out. How do you work “tine speed” into the equation? And how does it make a huge difference?

A tiller should be run at WOT like a mower. I’m trying to understand how “tine speed” figures in. And how would someone determine tine speed and use that to guide their decision about proper tiller?

I think this is an example of TBN over-complicating an issue. Unless there’s something wrong or badly designed, the typical tractor should handle the smallest tiller that covers the rear tire tracks. It really is that simple.
 
/ Tiller choice #16  
Help me out. How do you work “tine speed” into the equation? And how does it make a huge difference?

A tiller should be run at WOT like a mower. I’m trying to understand how “tine speed” figures in. And how would someone determine tine speed and use that to guide their decision about proper tiller?

I think this is an example of TBN over-complicating an issue. Unless there’s something wrong or badly designed, the typical tractor should handle the smallest tiller that covers the rear tire tracks. It really is that simple.
(y) Tine speed would depend on belt/pulley or gear ratio from 540 rpm to rotor/tines. As far as I know, they are reduced down.
Thanks for mentioning WOT pto speed vs the reduced power, “my tractor has eco pto at 1800ish rpm”
 
/ Tiller choice #17  
Help me out. How do you work “tine speed” into the equation? And how does it make a huge difference?

A tiller should be run at WOT like a mower. I’m trying to understand how “tine speed” figures in. And how would someone determine tine speed and use that to guide their decision about proper tiller?

I think this is an example of TBN over-complicating an issue. Unless there’s something wrong or badly designed, the typical tractor should handle the smallest tiller that covers the rear tire tracks. It really is that simple.
A PTO-driven tiller should run at rated PTO RPM of the tractor. And, yes, tillers don't take THAT much HP to operate in normal conditions.
 
/ Tiller choice #18  
TO say all tractors need WOT is like saying all cars are built the same and can run 60mph at the same rpm. Not true..

Look at your tractor and determine what is required for 540 RPM (unless you have one of them fast pto's). Anything further than that with the throttle is just easting fuel. My Kioti is 2500 rom to reach that number.

Many tractors have a mark on the tach gauge that identifies the 540 rpm.

I have had my used "caroni" looking tiller for about 16 yrs now. I paid for $300 for it around 2010-2011 replaced the tines immediately (agrisupply) and till up the garden every spring, summer and fall planting.
 
/ Tiller choice #19  
TO say all tractors need WOT is like saying all cars are built the same and can run 60mph at the same rpm. Not true..

Look at your tractor and determine what is required for 540 RPM (unless you have one of them fast pto's). Anything further than that with the throttle is just easting fuel. My Kioti is 2500 rom to reach that number.

Many tractors have a mark on the tach gauge that identifies the 540 rpm.

I have had my used "caroni" looking tiller for about 16 yrs now. I paid for $300 for it around 2010-2011 replaced the tines immediately (agrisupply) and till up the garden every spring, summer and fall planting.

That's not exactly what I said . . . just trying to make the point that a little faster is ok.

Think about your old push mower. Did you ever run it at anything other than WOT? Did it matter to you to know EXACTLY how fast that blade was spinning. Same with a walk-behind tiller -- don't you just push the throttle all the way up and let it do its thing? You don't need a tachometer or worry about over-revving it. No one worries about "tine speed" or "blade speed". Fastest is best.

With a tractor mounted tiller or mower or snowblower, it's the same thing. If you're mowing with your 3-point mower and running it at exactly 540 RPM (according to your tach), you're not getting the best possible cut. If you can run WOT and get another couple hundred RPM, it's going to cut better. And that's not just wasting fuel -- that's doing more work and doing a better job in the same amount of time.

Same with a tiller. You're not wasting fuel. You're just spinning it a little faster and doing more work with it in the same amount of time. It's not such a precision tool that it needs to spin at exactly 540 RPM on the tractor end of the PTO shaft. Nothing is going to fly apart just because you budge it up another few percent.

With a baler or haybine or implement that changes direction, you can usually find a range where it runs smooth, but beyond that it shakes and vibrates a lot. Not so much with a tiller or mower that's balanced and just spinning. My 30 HP Kubota does best at WOT (2700 RPM, I think) with a 5' tiller. Running it at exactly 540 RPM (closer to 2500 RPM) would not save fuel and would just take longer to do the same job.

To further complicate this, do we set the RPM / throttle BEFORE we lower the tiller into the ground or AFTER? Once you drop it and load the engine, you'll lose a few RPM. Do you compensate as you go? Might as well just run it wide open and then manage the load with your ground speed.

Not trying to argue the point, just my opinion. Some things like boats and mowers and tractors with tillers attached are actually meant to run at WOT. And there's no reason not to . . .
 
 

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