Tiller Tiller help...

RonR · Jul 15, 2004

Good Point Okie!

Many would argue that I have too large a tiller (52") for a BX2200. I just didn't want to mess with not covering my tracks. Yes, it is bigger than recommended. Yes, if I put it at fulled depth in loose or semi-loose dirt, it would load up the engine.

However, I found that mine works best if I have the skid shoes set at 2" and make multiple passes. Running the engine at 1/2 throttle, it puts no noticeable load on the engine. I'm not nearly as worried about this load on the engine as I am from damage if my slip clutch doesn't slip and I hit something immovable.

My two cents.

KiotiJohn · Jul 15, 2004

( I guess I'm just a bit skeptical of the politics and motivations of manufacturer's when they generate their recomendations...and have grown more comfortable with the feedback my tractor gives me. )
I can understand that, but think of it this way. The MFG is providing a warranty, doesn't want to have to replace something so they test to see what limits the machine will have and put out specs a bit low so when you go over it may not cause too much of a problem. Then you go WAY over, and way down the road when there is no warranty, you have problems from using oversized implements and the MFG is off the hook. I prefer to stay fairly close to the specs as I'm just not into paying for expensive parts and labor because I just HAD to have something bigger than I needed. Someone posted recently about oversized units, something to the effect that when guys say they're using a large implement but only cut/dig etc. half way and make a few passes, they're only admitting that they're overloading their tractors. I have to agree. I'd prefer to use the proper size unit, cut/dig once and just have a little more time involved, but less than redoing everything a few times.
AgentWD40, Kioti actually says you can use up to a 55" tiller on the LB1914. This has been an ongoing debate with them and me as before those specs, they had the same tillers listed with much higher PTO requirements listed, yet saying they were ok for those certain models. After I discussed it with them on several occasions, they changed the PTO requirements to 15 PTO for some tillers and brush cutters etc. I personally would not go over a 48" tiller, but that's just me. John

OkieG · Jul 15, 2004

using a large implement but only cut/dig etc. half way and make a few passes, they're only admitting that they're overloading their tractors. I have to agree.

John,

I know where you're coming from. But, I think of it this way: if an implement is truly a little bit too big, taking two passes to get to desired depth isn't necessarily overload, rather it's an accomodation to KEEP a tractor from being overloaded.

 put out specs a bit low I think you're right. Then you go WAY over, and way down the road when there is no warranty Of course, I'm not talking about going way over, and we've all had situations where the warranty expires a week before the product dies. Amazing! The conservative ratings may be as much a customer satisfaction issue as a warranty one.

KK rates their 48" tiller for 20-35PTOhp. 25hp min for the 60"er. My tractor is rated at 19PTOhp. By Manufacturer's Recomendations my tractor is too small for even the 48" tiller!!

Both my brush hog and tiller are rated for 25PTOhp and up. Each is turned easily by my little tractor. I may be wrong (I hope not), but I don't expect any undue wear and tear from living outside the fringes of Manufacturer's recomended size limits...at least, my tractor tells me so. Hope it's not a liar!

OkieG

MadDog · Jul 15, 2004

FWIW the CCM 58" tiller is rated for 20-60 PTO hp so you should be able to accomodate that OK with 20.5 pto hp. That's what I have for my B7800, even though it has 22 hp at the PTO and, according to the CCM website, could accomodate a 66" tiller.

It would be poor business for a dealer to sell you a tiller that is too big for your tractor to handle, just to make a very few $$ more. I doubt that there's much more than $20-$40 difference in dealer profit as you move up in sizes and that shouldn't be worth ending up with a dissatisfied customer. (Not that some folks aren't short-sighted (alternative word: dumb) enough to do it and grab the few extra $$ anyway).

Zoomie · Jul 15, 2004

I think the implement MFG suggestions as to size also have to do with returns as much, if not more so, than warranty repair concerns.

If someone buys a 60" tiller, and tries to run it full depth thru virgin soil behind a BX1500, they are likely to be displeased with its performance. That doesn't mean the tractor won't run the implement under other conditions... but it may mean a disgruntled customer returning a (now used) implement.

OkieG · Jul 15, 2004

MadDog,
I think you're right. There may be redundant padding of numbers at both the tractor end and the implement end of things. Can't prove it though. Just a feeling I get from limited personal experience. On the other hand, I will likely never run my tiller at full depth in the hardest of ground.

Zoomie,
Your comments are my thoughts also. Additionally, I don't see why to expect damage or premature wear as long as the implement runs with the engine humming along most of the time and not mostly bogged down.

Anyway, I have to ask you how you came up with your userID? Wouldn't be a Colorado connection somewhere would it?

OkieG

Zoomie · Jul 16, 2004

OkieG,

Actually, I'm retired USAF and just as Marines are known as Jarheads, Army people as Grunts, and Navy as Squids... among those other branches, AF folks are often called Zoomies.

Now, my last two duty stations were in Colorado, Peterson AFB and (at the time) Falcon AFS out east of Colorado Springs working in Ronald Reagan's SDI R&D facility, aka the National Testbed Facility.

I also spent some years stationed in OKC, working on AWACS... I lived in Midwest city at first, later on the base, during two very nasty hail-storms and one tornado. While living on base I also worked part time in a little gun shop over in Del City.

Nice "talking" with you...

KiotiJohn · Jul 16, 2004

( know where you're coming from. But, I think of it this way: if an implement is truly a little bit too big, taking two passes to get to desired depth isn't necessarily overload, rather it's an accomodation to KEEP a tractor from being overloaded. )
Actually, I think I misquoted the poster. I believe what he said was, "They're admitting the implement is too large for their tractor," so, yes, you're right. You're not really overloading the engine, just possibly putting more stress on the 3pt, but that may not be substantial.
You may be changing my mind somewhat, but I'll still be pretty cautious as I don't want to do ANY damage that I can avoid with just a little extra care because then my warranty may be no good, and I sure don't want to have to start paying for repairs too soon!! John

Egon · Jul 16, 2004

If a tiller is too wide the tines from outside flanges can be removed .

Egon

Bob_Skurka · Jul 16, 2004

If a tiller is too wide the tines from outside flanges can be removed .


And if your rear blade is too wide, should you cut that down too? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I still think it is advisable to follow the tractor manufacturer recomendations and in the case of people with rocks and clay, to err on the smaller side rather than the larger size of the recommended size range.