tiltmeters

[MarkV]

Rick,

Everyone seems to agree that 15 to 20 degrees is as far as you want to go on a side slope. I was wondering what is considered to much on an up hill/ down hill slope? I understand the numbers may differ for differnt tractors. Just looking for general guidelines. Thanks

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,MarkV,
Up and down slope recommendations are 30 degrees, by ANSI.
Don't let that fool anyone though. Standards are with no
implements etc. Roll-over statistics for 1996 follow. 1163
REPORTED Roll-overs. 503 Deaths. 615 disabeling injuries.
Another estimated 2000 non-reported roll-overs. Reported stats come from insurance stats accumulated from insurance
pay outs for injuries, deaths, and equipment damages. Many
non-insured were never reported. (Estimated 2000.) Some
were just too embarrased to say they had a roll-over!!!
The two roll-overs I have had were both witnessed by others.
Hard to deny. Besides, the wife wondering how i happened to
soil my undies. Not suppose to have two on a tractor, however
I believe god was my passenger both times. In my years of
experience mowing for the highway dept. I found many optical
illusions in grass and weeds. Of course rain running to lower
part of slope causes vegetation to grow taller at bottom.
Doesn't look that steep until your on it. Trees growing out
and up can cause similar illusion. Equipment roll-overs are
the biggest cause of death on a farm according to insurance
groups. Getting caught in a turning P.T.O. is second.
Remote starting of a tractor while in gear is near top also. We are currently working on a proximety sensor and a
motion detector to kill engine if someone is too near engaged
P.T.O. Nothing perfected yet. Too many variables. Will keep
trying. Bottom line at least in my way of thinking is ROPS,
weights, seat belt etc. I have a reputation to up hold. Not
a good thing if maker of slope indicator reported killed
in roll-over. That would be like a swimming instructor
drowning in wading pool. I read a little ditty one time on a
flyer from a farm show. Believe it might have been John Deere flyer. "SAFETY-LIVE WITH IT". Says it all doesn't it.
Keep the comments coming. Good or bad. It all helps in developement
of new stuff. Rick.

 

[Bird]

Thanks, Rick.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,Mark,Gerard,and all the great guys out there in tractor
land. I have a favor to ask. I have received requests for
info. from a major tractor manufacturer. When i did a follow up call, I was told "great idea" but not interested.
Two reasons. #1. Might give tractor operator false sense of
security. #2. Other competitors might use it against us.
Like at a farm show. Hey buddy, better stay away from that
tractor brand. They must have a roll-over problem or they
would not be putting those indicators on there. Better come
and buy a tractor from us instead. Now, my favor. What is
your opinion guys ????? Doesn't have to be my indicator.
Quite frankly, if this major manufacturer decided to use an
indicator, someone with more money could probably beat me
out of the deal. I know there is a good after market for
indicators. Seems manufacturers are more interested in profit
than saving lives. Maybe i'm wrong. What do you guys think?????
Do you think ANYONES indicator should be on tractors straight
from factory ????? Thanks in advance for any replies. Rick

 

[Keoke]

Rick, thanks for the info. Also, thanks for keeping that R&D going.

Best regards,
george, keoke

 

[Rch]

Rick; the reluctence by marketing departments of manufactures to use tiltmeters as origenal equipment and thereby indirectly admit that tractors can rollover reminds me of the origenal foray of Ford in 1956 into seat belts,padded dash and dished out steering wheels- it was before its time. However tractor buyers,at least a substantial %, are a different market than car buyers,with considerable more research going into the decision of what to buy,plus some scary previous experience. The fact that tractors have ROPS and seat belts means the cat is already out of the bag-- tractors can maime or kill you. An ad campaign that intelligently plays to further reducing that 'inherent' risk complements a buyer's intelligence. What you are saying is "here is the necessary equipment to prevent injury", or the rental supplier is saying " hey novice,here is a device to protect you" and reduce his liability. Marketing departments are notorious followers. When they lead, like Volvo pushing safety, they are pegged as "innovative", get awards in advertising and ,coincidently, sell cars. I have colleages who will allow their kids and wives to only drive dual airbag cars etc. Often,such cutting edge ads solidfy a paradigm that was out there ready to gel. I think tractor safety is one of those paradigms as evidenced by a long recent thread on TractorByNet about brown stain-in-the-underwear with near tip-overs. Such visceral responses get your attention and you get serious about reducing the risks.

RCH

 

[Bird]

Rick, I don't know how to answer people like that, who say it's an indication that the tractor might roll over. Couldn't they say the same thing for the ROPS and seat belts? There are an awful lot of old tractors still around without the ROPS and seat belts, and I don't even know which manufacturers first started putting them on tractors. When the first manufacturer put a roll bar on a tractor, did he worry about customers taking that as an indication that his brand was more susceptible to roll over than other brands? It seems to me that intelligent marketing folks ought to be able to make the slope indicator another selling point instead of a drawback.

Bird

 

[gordon]

All the tractor manufacturers knew about the rollover problem but all were afraid to be the first to put a rops or seatbelt on a tractor for the same fear as they have now about putting on a level indicator from the factory on a tractor. Didn't the goverment step in and finally get the ball rolling because noone wanted to be on the cutting edge of the rops issue?

A large percentage of buyers would love to see one mounted on a tractor from the factory just for the added gizmo effect alone. Now from a safty standpoint the average tractor buyer is well aware of the rollover hazards with a tractor.

But the smart way to market this thing is not come straight from the factory with it mounted as a stock item have it as a option or bundled as a upgrade. That way it wouldn't seem as it's absolutely necessary (because that brand of tractor in more likely to rollover), but it's a nice and added safty feature!!!

I've got alot of hours on a tractor and never rolled one and hope I never do but the other night I ordered a 7489c maybe because I'm getting alittle older and wiser or just curious as to how far I run my tractor before the pucker kicks in and I put it in reverse.

In my view the first manufacturer to put an indicator on a tractor and markets it correctly will have a cash windfall!!! It's a shame that to be on the cutting edge can backfire at times and you then get cut instead of doing the cutting. Thats why the big players are all afraid to take the first step!!! Afraid they might get a deep flesh wound!!! Instead of saving a live!!!-----marketing at it's best or worst I'll leave it up to you to decide.

Gordon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hey guys-thanks for the response. hope to see much more on
this subject. I must be fair and admit that the manufacturer
i spoke of did say" If you get another major player to do it
first, we will follow" A few months ago I had the pleasure
of meeting an elderly gentleman that was one of the people
that pushed for and helped develope rops in the late fifties
and early sixties. He told me that ALL manufacturers resisted
the rops at first. He says it was not until uncle sam stepped
in and started putting pressure on that it was finally done. Then, each one watched the other and made sure they
all complied at same time. No one wanted to be first.
My statement about profit vs. lives was not fair. I know
there is much more to it than that. I personally hated seat belts in my first car that came with them. however i will
admit that now i firmly believe in them. The elderly man
i spoke of earlier said as one of you mentioned, Marketing
is the key to something like this. he said if i was the
one in charge of marketing for a manufacturer i would say
something like-" The sputnick tractor company has long
been a leader in quality, and engineering, and now safety.
I personally lost a friend and co-worker to a roll-over.
Not on the job, but on his small farm. Tractor rolled into
pond while mowing inside of dam.Pinned under water. Happened
7 months before we started our company. Indicator may have
helped, may not. When i rolled, i was mowing a hill side
that was about 800 ft. long. Last fifty or so feet was steep. Pushed my luck. Did not want to have to go up and
down for this last little spot. MISTAKE!!!!!Bummer!!!!!
I know an indicator will not prevent a roll-over. It can
definately help. Common sense and being careful is the best
bet. However i do know from feed back from highway depts.
that use my indicators that roll-overs have significantly
dropped. I get alot of email, and postal mail. The ones i
love to get more than anything is someone saying thanks, i
truly believe your indicator saved my butt. I have each one
hanging on the wall. My problem is- i don't care that much
about marketing. I just love inventing the darn things, and
seeing mail like that. Gotta buy groceries somehow.
Again, thanks guys for the responses. Rick

 

[Bird]

Rick, I guess I'm a little different from a lot of folks. I'm one of those that installed my own seat belts in my first new car (1962) since it came without them. And then on 12/29/65, a seat belt undoubtedly saved my life when we hit a tree head on (I wasn't driving and the seat belt broke and I still knocked the windshield out, but the belt slowed me down enough that I survived, and even left the hospital the same night). When my daughters were teenagers and got their drivers licenses, they understood that if I ever caught them without a seat belt on, they would forfeit their keys and license. And sure enough, the youngest one turned her car over and walked away without medical treatment. Then less than two years ago, my wife rolled her station wagon, so my family is a firm believer in the seat belts. Now if I could just teach these gals to drive . . ../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird