tiltmeters

[Bird]

Ches, I think George & Jerry have already pretty well answered. I considered drilling the holes and mounting mine on that square piece of metal you're talking about in front of the instrument panel, but since I have a canopy on my tractor, I mounted it to that frame. Of course, if you mount it to the bar you mention, it comes off with the loader, so you wouldn't have the tiltmeter if you had the loader off.

Bird

 

[Ches]

Thanks for the info, guys. Bought some ot that tape from Walmart Saturday and put the tiltmeter on. Checke out the slope of my dam that I had been afraid to get on, turns out it's between 15 and 20 degrees. Felt OK, but except for the section near the bottom of the back side of the dam. Plan to stay away from there and use my little Wheelhorse to mow that area.
Sidenote: There some good people at Carver Equipment. I ordered a shop manual for my 2910 from my local dealer where I bought my tractor. I received a shop manual for a 2710. I took it back and was told Kubota must have removed the wrong one from the shelf. Dealer said they would order me another one. A week later I received the same 2710 shop manual with a note, "Kubota says there is no manual for the 2910, the 2710 manual will work, maybe some specs are different, but tractors are basically the same--says Kubota". Friday, I e-mailed Carver Equipment asking if they knew of a munual for the 2910. Got reply from Carver today-- there is a shop manual for the 2910 and they gave me the part number. Guess who will be getting to serve me in the near future?

Ches

 

[W5FL]

Tried the tilt meter link at the bottom of the screen and got amazon.com??

http://www.tiltmeter.com works, though.

I looked up the one Mark uses (45 degrees) 7489/7490 with sound but also found a 25D 25P also available with sound. Don't guess it matters, but which is more useful - degrees or percent grade?

Do you ever get surprised by the horn and at what setting does it come on?

What is the highest number you have ever seen (from your seat - not laying on the ground) fore/aft or sideways.

Are 2 tiltmeters more helpful than one and do both (or neither) need the horn?

If R&B is willing to put red numbers or a red zone on the L2-25 dual unit, would you start it at 20 degrees or ???

 

[Bud]

I think I'm going to get a tiltmeter. Probably the 25D, 25 degrees should be enough, if your leaning any farther you will too busy to read the meter anyway. When it only goes to 25 makes it more accurate to read at a quick glance when your going over. One thing about the 25D, it sure looks awful flat in one color. Not very impressive at all. Doesn't have a lot of good looks like some of the other meters.
Bud

 

[Keoke]

Wen and Bud, I just got a couple of 25-d tiltmeters mounted up. These meters are built well and look real good. The markings are raised and white lettered. Between 15 and 20 degrees they are painted yellow and from 20 to 25 degrees red on the side to side meter. My fore and aft meter is yellow from 20 to 25 degrees. Made a plywood box to fit under canopy and mounted meters on the box. Have no trouble reading the meters with this mounting, vibration not a problem here. I feel a more comfortable working on hillsides with the meters than I did before the meters.
I am comfortable at 15 degrees and it's get's a bit puckery beyond that.
Hope this helps.
george, keoke

 

[Bird]

Wen, as far as whether degrees or percentage is best, I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. I like the degrees. And while I bought the 7489C, I know now that 25 degrees would be more than I'd ever need; 18 is as far as I've gone (or want to go even though I think I'd be all right at 20 degrees). I guess the audible alarm would be a good idea, but don't feel that I need it.

Bird

 

[gordon]

Bird yesterday I ordered the 7489c after much thinking on which one would work best for me. I'm curious as to how much or how steep an angle I put my tractor on before the pucker starts. I talked to Rick on the phone real nice guy said that I should have the meter by Tues. I have to mount it on the old tractor just to see how steep I've been going.
Gordon

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Gordon, I was just curious myself. Maybe I just like to be upright more than some folks, but I really don't much like anything over 10 degrees sideways, and when it gets over 15, you can bet I'm going very slowly and cautiously. Turning a tractor over could just ruin your whole day. And I've forgotten exactly when I called and when mine was delivered, but I do know Rick got it here very promptly.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi guys,
Rick here. Hey Bud, i would be glad to paint the numbers
on a 25D for you. No charge. If anyone already has one and
would like them painted, send them back, and I will paint
them free. I'll even send you a check to cover your
postage!!!!!
P>S> to those interested, i will post info. i have on how
many roll-overs there were in 1996, how many deaths, etc.
if anyone would like to know. Info. was compiled by farm
bureau insurance group. Very interesting, but you may not
want to know. The honest truth is, if my indicators can
possibly help reduce these numbers, i'll be tickled pink
as bubble gum. I'm with alot of you guys, 15 degrees is
about my limit on side slopes. If a wheel drops in a wash
out, or you hit a rock with the up-hill wheel, you can
suddenly be at 20+ quicker than my bird dog can eat a quail.
(about 5 seconds on average). Well back to work . Rick.

 

[Bird]

Rick, I, for one, would be interested in those statistics. I don't know how many tractors roll over and how many folks get killed and/or injured every year, but I know it's way too many.

Bird

 

[MarkV]

Rick,

Everyone seems to agree that 15 to 20 degrees is as far as you want to go on a side slope. I was wondering what is considered to much on an up hill/ down hill slope? I understand the numbers may differ for differnt tractors. Just looking for general guidelines. Thanks

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,MarkV,
Up and down slope recommendations are 30 degrees, by ANSI.
Don't let that fool anyone though. Standards are with no
implements etc. Roll-over statistics for 1996 follow. 1163
REPORTED Roll-overs. 503 Deaths. 615 disabeling injuries.
Another estimated 2000 non-reported roll-overs. Reported stats come from insurance stats accumulated from insurance
pay outs for injuries, deaths, and equipment damages. Many
non-insured were never reported. (Estimated 2000.) Some
were just too embarrased to say they had a roll-over!!!
The two roll-overs I have had were both witnessed by others.
Hard to deny. Besides, the wife wondering how i happened to
soil my undies. Not suppose to have two on a tractor, however
I believe god was my passenger both times. In my years of
experience mowing for the highway dept. I found many optical
illusions in grass and weeds. Of course rain running to lower
part of slope causes vegetation to grow taller at bottom.
Doesn't look that steep until your on it. Trees growing out
and up can cause similar illusion. Equipment roll-overs are
the biggest cause of death on a farm according to insurance
groups. Getting caught in a turning P.T.O. is second.
Remote starting of a tractor while in gear is near top also. We are currently working on a proximety sensor and a
motion detector to kill engine if someone is too near engaged
P.T.O. Nothing perfected yet. Too many variables. Will keep
trying. Bottom line at least in my way of thinking is ROPS,
weights, seat belt etc. I have a reputation to up hold. Not
a good thing if maker of slope indicator reported killed
in roll-over. That would be like a swimming instructor
drowning in wading pool. I read a little ditty one time on a
flyer from a farm show. Believe it might have been John Deere flyer. "SAFETY-LIVE WITH IT". Says it all doesn't it.
Keep the comments coming. Good or bad. It all helps in developement
of new stuff. Rick.

 

[Bird]

Thanks, Rick.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,Mark,Gerard,and all the great guys out there in tractor
land. I have a favor to ask. I have received requests for
info. from a major tractor manufacturer. When i did a follow up call, I was told "great idea" but not interested.
Two reasons. #1. Might give tractor operator false sense of
security. #2. Other competitors might use it against us.
Like at a farm show. Hey buddy, better stay away from that
tractor brand. They must have a roll-over problem or they
would not be putting those indicators on there. Better come
and buy a tractor from us instead. Now, my favor. What is
your opinion guys ????? Doesn't have to be my indicator.
Quite frankly, if this major manufacturer decided to use an
indicator, someone with more money could probably beat me
out of the deal. I know there is a good after market for
indicators. Seems manufacturers are more interested in profit
than saving lives. Maybe i'm wrong. What do you guys think?????
Do you think ANYONES indicator should be on tractors straight
from factory ????? Thanks in advance for any replies. Rick

 

[Keoke]

Rick, thanks for the info. Also, thanks for keeping that R&D going.

Best regards,
george, keoke

 

[Rch]

Rick; the reluctence by marketing departments of manufactures to use tiltmeters as origenal equipment and thereby indirectly admit that tractors can rollover reminds me of the origenal foray of Ford in 1956 into seat belts,padded dash and dished out steering wheels- it was before its time. However tractor buyers,at least a substantial %, are a different market than car buyers,with considerable more research going into the decision of what to buy,plus some scary previous experience. The fact that tractors have ROPS and seat belts means the cat is already out of the bag-- tractors can maime or kill you. An ad campaign that intelligently plays to further reducing that 'inherent' risk complements a buyer's intelligence. What you are saying is "here is the necessary equipment to prevent injury", or the rental supplier is saying " hey novice,here is a device to protect you" and reduce his liability. Marketing departments are notorious followers. When they lead, like Volvo pushing safety, they are pegged as "innovative", get awards in advertising and ,coincidently, sell cars. I have colleages who will allow their kids and wives to only drive dual airbag cars etc. Often,such cutting edge ads solidfy a paradigm that was out there ready to gel. I think tractor safety is one of those paradigms as evidenced by a long recent thread on TractorByNet about brown stain-in-the-underwear with near tip-overs. Such visceral responses get your attention and you get serious about reducing the risks.

RCH

 

[Bird]

Rick, I don't know how to answer people like that, who say it's an indication that the tractor might roll over. Couldn't they say the same thing for the ROPS and seat belts? There are an awful lot of old tractors still around without the ROPS and seat belts, and I don't even know which manufacturers first started putting them on tractors. When the first manufacturer put a roll bar on a tractor, did he worry about customers taking that as an indication that his brand was more susceptible to roll over than other brands? It seems to me that intelligent marketing folks ought to be able to make the slope indicator another selling point instead of a drawback.

Bird

 

[gordon]

All the tractor manufacturers knew about the rollover problem but all were afraid to be the first to put a rops or seatbelt on a tractor for the same fear as they have now about putting on a level indicator from the factory on a tractor. Didn't the goverment step in and finally get the ball rolling because noone wanted to be on the cutting edge of the rops issue?

A large percentage of buyers would love to see one mounted on a tractor from the factory just for the added gizmo effect alone. Now from a safty standpoint the average tractor buyer is well aware of the rollover hazards with a tractor.

But the smart way to market this thing is not come straight from the factory with it mounted as a stock item have it as a option or bundled as a upgrade. That way it wouldn't seem as it's absolutely necessary (because that brand of tractor in more likely to rollover), but it's a nice and added safty feature!!!

I've got alot of hours on a tractor and never rolled one and hope I never do but the other night I ordered a 7489c maybe because I'm getting alittle older and wiser or just curious as to how far I run my tractor before the pucker kicks in and I put it in reverse.

In my view the first manufacturer to put an indicator on a tractor and markets it correctly will have a cash windfall!!! It's a shame that to be on the cutting edge can backfire at times and you then get cut instead of doing the cutting. Thats why the big players are all afraid to take the first step!!! Afraid they might get a deep flesh wound!!! Instead of saving a live!!!-----marketing at it's best or worst I'll leave it up to you to decide.

Gordon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hey guys-thanks for the response. hope to see much more on
this subject. I must be fair and admit that the manufacturer
i spoke of did say" If you get another major player to do it
first, we will follow" A few months ago I had the pleasure
of meeting an elderly gentleman that was one of the people
that pushed for and helped develope rops in the late fifties
and early sixties. He told me that ALL manufacturers resisted
the rops at first. He says it was not until uncle sam stepped
in and started putting pressure on that it was finally done. Then, each one watched the other and made sure they
all complied at same time. No one wanted to be first.
My statement about profit vs. lives was not fair. I know
there is much more to it than that. I personally hated seat belts in my first car that came with them. however i will
admit that now i firmly believe in them. The elderly man
i spoke of earlier said as one of you mentioned, Marketing
is the key to something like this. he said if i was the
one in charge of marketing for a manufacturer i would say
something like-" The sputnick tractor company has long
been a leader in quality, and engineering, and now safety.
I personally lost a friend and co-worker to a roll-over.
Not on the job, but on his small farm. Tractor rolled into
pond while mowing inside of dam.Pinned under water. Happened
7 months before we started our company. Indicator may have
helped, may not. When i rolled, i was mowing a hill side
that was about 800 ft. long. Last fifty or so feet was steep. Pushed my luck. Did not want to have to go up and
down for this last little spot. MISTAKE!!!!!Bummer!!!!!
I know an indicator will not prevent a roll-over. It can
definately help. Common sense and being careful is the best
bet. However i do know from feed back from highway depts.
that use my indicators that roll-overs have significantly
dropped. I get alot of email, and postal mail. The ones i
love to get more than anything is someone saying thanks, i
truly believe your indicator saved my butt. I have each one
hanging on the wall. My problem is- i don't care that much
about marketing. I just love inventing the darn things, and
seeing mail like that. Gotta buy groceries somehow.
Again, thanks guys for the responses. Rick

 

[Bird]

Rick, I guess I'm a little different from a lot of folks. I'm one of those that installed my own seat belts in my first new car (1962) since it came without them. And then on 12/29/65, a seat belt undoubtedly saved my life when we hit a tree head on (I wasn't driving and the seat belt broke and I still knocked the windshield out, but the belt slowed me down enough that I survived, and even left the hospital the same night). When my daughters were teenagers and got their drivers licenses, they understood that if I ever caught them without a seat belt on, they would forfeit their keys and license. And sure enough, the youngest one turned her car over and walked away without medical treatment. Then less than two years ago, my wife rolled her station wagon, so my family is a firm believer in the seat belts. Now if I could just teach these gals to drive . . ../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird