Chains Tire chain considerations before purchase...

[JD 4520]

I will be using my JD 4520 for plowing a 1200' driveway this winter. The driveway is all hard surface (asphalt & concrete) and has some moderate elevation change. I anticipate needing chains on the front tires. What experience good or bad or other considerations should I consider in my purchase of chains? Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[AKfish]

I will be using my JD 4520 for plowing a 1200' driveway this winter. The driveway is all hard surface (asphalt & concrete) and has some moderate elevation change. I anticipate needing chains on the front tires. What experience good or bad or other considerations should I consider in my purchase of chains? Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

Don't buy a V-bar link chain! Your hard surfaces will look like a grizzly bear's been chasin' ground squirrel's back and forth all winter!

You will want a chain that is a flat link with a H crossbar - it will help keep the chain above the tire lugs - not down inside them.

AKfish

 

[Gizmo2]

Don't buy a V-bar link chain! Your hard surfaces will look like a grizzly bear's been chasin' ground squirrel's back and forth all winter!

You will want a chain that is a flat link with a H crossbar - it will help keep the chain above the tire lugs - not down inside them.

AKfish

:thumbsup:

 

[brewdog]

I'd put weight in the tires and keep it in 4wd and forget the chains. The chains destroy the surface of the concrete and in a year you will see chip spots where the chains scratched the cement and the water migrated down. When it freezes, small round circular divots will appear on the surface of the cement. The asphalt will scratch but I'm not sure what other damage will occur, since i've never had asphalt. When I've had to use them, I only put them on the front tires and I stay off the concrete.

 

[RoyJackson]

I will be using my JD 4520 for plowing a 1200' driveway this winter. The driveway is all hard surface (asphalt & concrete) and has some moderate elevation change. I anticipate needing chains on the front tires. What experience good or bad or other considerations should I consider in my purchase of chains? Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

What kind of tires do you have? That will be one factor...
And, mild changes in elevation won't necessarily require an aggressive chain type (buddy of mine does a pretty steep drive with 2 link ladder chains on the rear tires (R-1 Ag tires, BTW)).

My suggestions are:
1) to call www.tirechains.com and get their recommendations.

2) ordering your chains before winter as they may not be available if you wait.

3) get chains for the rear tires only and learn to use your steering brakes

You may not even need to use 4WD with chains, BTW. The friend I referred to earlier did, initially, mar his asphalt drive. He learned to not make abrupt or sharp turns (especially when turning around) and eliminated any marring or scuffing on the asphalt.

 

[JD 4520]

Good input on the not using chains. I really hope not to use them for the reasons you state but not really sure how my tractor will handle on the snow. I will soon find out. Thanks

 

[sunnyside360]

Good input on the not using chains. I really hope not to use them for the reasons you state but not really sure how my tractor will handle on the snow. I will soon find out. Thanks

I never use chains on my 4320 with weighted R4's and front plow on my driveway which is over 2000 ft of asphalt plus about 1800 sq ft of concrete in front of the garage. I have two medium hills and have never had trouble in 4wd. Every once in a while I have to use diff lock but that is rare.
Personally, I would not even purchase chains. Say good-bye to your nice driveway if you do use chains.

 

[beenthere]

I too agree that you will likely not need the chains, but I'd recommend getting a pair to have on hand for those few times the snow/ice conditions are such that chains will get you of trouble (or keep you from getting in trouble).
Getting stuck in a snow drift, or on a patch of ice, or hung up when the slush below turns to ice and being completely helpless is not one bit o fun.
I use front chains for just those very few times needed. And I still have a nice driveway, both concrete and asphalt.

 

[fuseboxer]

See posting for wheel weights for 3038E from a few days back. Much traction improvement by lowering the tire pressure. Quote below.

Bronze Member


Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69 Re: Wheel weights for 3038E with R4 tires

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Troy,
My dealer verified that he could order wheel weights for this tractor, but if better traction is what you're after I would go with the advice of all the Ag tire manufacturers first: Make sure your tires are not over-inflated. I now run the rear, unfilled R4s in my 3038e at 9.5 psi, which has dramatically improved traction. My fronts are 16.5 psi but I don't have a loader. I have never noticed rim slip nor any problems with these pressures, and the ride on this short-wheelbase tractor is much better. You might want to try this first before spending the money on weights.
Tim

Perhaps a little more air than Tim suggests and a little less than you now have may improve your traction and prevent your need for chains. I will lower my tire pressure but not as low as Tim and hope to improve my snow traction

 

[msmud]

The ag handbooks make clear in their various tables that the max/min tire pressures quoted for various sizes are usually based on a maximum speed of 25 mph road speed for farm tractors. At that high speed considerable pressure is needed to prevent unnecessary sidewall flexing and to bear sudden vertical axle loads.

Yet, the manufacturers also give footnotes for operations at 5mph - 10 mph or lower, saying that the load bearing capacity of the tire is up to 80% higher at low speeds, such that lower tire pressures can be used.

Since the 3038e has a maximum speed of nearly 15 mph, Deere must cite minimum tire pressures than can bear axle loads at that speed. This is why I take the 12 psi minimum pressures in the rears as just a guide. R4 industrial tables usually show R4s to have tremendous load bearing capacity--in my case, the load bearing of just one rear R4 is more than the weight of the whole tractor at standard recommended inflation pressures!

I dont want to get any one in trouble here, so proceed cautiously. Keep in mind that if you lower your tire pressures below the recommended (all speed) minima, you must check tire pressures fastidiously as air temperature falls, otherwise you could get into some trouble, particularly in the smaller front tires.

See the two links below, the first being an excellent University of Kentucky summary, the second being the full Michelin Ag Handbook. Look at the wide range of acceptable pressures in the U of K example, down to 6 psi. Note also the warning to lower your pressures as much as is consistent with supporting the axle load.
http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/aen/aen93/aen93.pdf

See pages 12 - 13 for compact tractor R1 specs at low speed in the Michelin Ag handbook:
http://www.michelinag.com/agx/en-US/products/product_detail_pages/09Michelin AG_DataBook.pdf

Hope this helps.
Tim

 

[stlbill]

Hi Gbomalley:

+1 on the NO CHAINS pile!

I plow concrete and asphalt driveways without chains with my 2305. My Winter configuration includes a 200CX loader with ~60" materials bucket, 3PH RB, JD Quickhitch and loaded rear tires. Tread pattern is R4 all the way around. My 3PH RB has a horse stall mat (rubber) edge for snow. I switch to the steel edge for ice.

In one place my driveway rises ~20 feet vertical in a ~100 foot linear distance. I can plow up, down or sideways on this hill. To make matters worse St. Louis, Missouri is at the latitude which receives almost as much freezing rain as snow.

In this configuration there was one time last year when I could not run the 2305 on the driveway...safely. That morning we received 0.25" of freezing rain. If you have been fortunate enough not to ever experience this weather it is literally a hockey rink!

Now the most snow we had in any storm was 8 inches. You will probably have more snow accumulation at your latitude and/or altitude. You made no mention of a FEL. Do you anticipate running out of places to push all that snow? I still think it is unlikely, but chains *MIGHT* come in handy if you run out of places to push snow and don't have a FEL to stack it.

Please let us know what you decide and how it works for you!

-Bill

 

[RoyJackson]

The ag handbooks make clear in their various tables that the max/min tire pressures quoted for various sizes are usually based on a maximum speed of 25 mph road speed for farm tractors. At that high speed considerable pressure is needed to prevent unnecessary sidewall flexing and to bear sudden vertical axle loads.

Yet, the manufacturers also give footnotes for operations at 5mph - 10 mph or lower, saying that the load bearing capacity of the tire is up to 80% higher at low speeds, such that lower tire pressures can be used.

Since the 3038e has a maximum speed of nearly 15 mph, Deere must cite minimum tire pressures than can bear axle loads at that speed. This is why I take the 12 psi minimum pressures in the rears as just a guide. R4 industrial tables usually show R4s to have tremendous load bearing capacity--in my case, the load bearing of just one rear R4 is more than the weight of the whole tractor at standard recommended inflation pressures!

I dont want to get any one in trouble here, so proceed cautiously. Keep in mind that if you lower your tire pressures below the recommended (all speed) minima, you must check tire pressures fastidiously as air temperature falls, otherwise you could get into some trouble, particularly in the smaller front tires.

Tim

In the agricultural world, I'd guess farmers raise (for road transport) and lower (for field work) tire pressures to meet the needs of the task at hand, just as they add or remove ballast to suit the task (I'm sure a farmer or two will jump in to support that statement or tell me I'm full of it).

But since this thread is discussing snow plowing, what farmers do isn't really relevent (unless they're plowing their drive).

Lowering pressure puts more of the tires' "foot print" on the ground, hence more traction. This is even recommended for road vehicles such as one's car or truck. Of course, it's expected that a person would add air pressure as soon as possible once the low traction area has been passed. It's really more of an emergency method to help one out of a sticky situation then a standard procedure for winter driving.
If I was stuck in a drift (with no loader to help push me out), I'd probably lower the pressure a few pounds as a last resort, but I sure wouldn't do it otherwise. Haven't had to do this (since I had a loader)...and after getting stuck several times during a blizzard in Feb 2010, I did the smart thing...got chains for my rear tires.

 

[High Compression]

I never use chains on my 4320 with weighted R4's and front plow on my driveway which is over 2000 ft of asphalt plus about 1800 sq ft of concrete in front of the garage. I have two medium hills and have never had trouble in 4wd. Every once in a while I have to use diff lock but that is rare.
Personally, I would not even purchase chains. Say good-bye to your nice driveway if you do use chains.

I agree, no chains necessary. I've been plowing with both my 2660 and 3030 for a few years now with roughly 250 hrs per season. I have yet to need chains and I know my customers appreciate me not tearing up their pavement. I use loaded turf tires and get great traction even on ice.:thumbsup:

 

[fuseboxer]

I do not want to go with minimum air pressure to max grip but do plan to use less air. Most people, me included, have max air in their tires and this is the least traction. Compromise never use max nor min go with the mean pressure= .7 X max.

 

[stlbill]

Hi guys:

I work on hills so both sets of rear tires for my tractor are loaded with Rimguard. I was told not to adjust or even check the pressure in them unless they look low.

 

[Red Horse]

Another thought on chains with turfs. My 3320 has loaded turfs and I have a weight block that is about 550 lbs. I have a 6' meyers power angler on my 300CX. My drive is about 700 ft of gravel but I also help out my neighbor when I feel he is done playing with his walk behind blower. He has a very nice asphalt drive (about 300 ft.) and I have to say I don't think I have ever left a mark.

Key point with turfs, I think the biggest advantage of the chains might even be the added weight as a high percentage of the cross links end up "imbedded" between the lugs. Oh-the other thing, I'm one of those old guys that believes you DON"T have to run your hydro at 2500 RPM. Our snowfall last year was I believe in the area of 120".

Bottom line, I'd rather have them. You never know when you are going to get that 1/2" of freezing rain and then it turns into wet heavy snow.

 

[whistlepig]

Chains are sweet. They are well worth the expense and time to mount. A ballast box makes things even better with my filled R4 tires and chains. Buy ladder chains with no gaps between the links and the ride will be much better.

 

[Gizmo2]

Another thought on chains with turfs. My 3320 has loaded turfs and I have a weight block that is about 550 lbs. I have a 6' meyers power angler on my 300CX. My drive is about 700 ft of gravel but I also help out my neighbor when I feel he is done playing with his walk behind blower. He has a very nice asphalt drive (about 300 ft.) and I have to say I don't think I have ever left a mark.

Key point with turfs, I think the biggest advantage of the chains might even be the added weight as a high percentage of the cross links end up "imbedded" between the lugs. Oh-the other thing, I'm one of those old guys that believes you DON"T have to run your hydro at 2500 RPM. Our snowfall last year was I believe in the area of 120".

Bottom line, I'd rather have them. You never know when you are going to get that 1/2" of freezing rain and then it turns into wet heavy snow.

20 years of snow plowing my asphalt driveway and NEVER take my rear chains off, never left a mark on the driveway. Maybe I'm lucky. Freezing rain and 1/4" of ice I even put chains on the front. Having the chains is....well, to quote someone, not sure who, Luck is the moment when Preparation meets Opportunity!

 

[lungdoc]

Need for chains varies immensely with the amount of hill and the type of conditions you experience. I wouldn't go without them for my needs. I definitely wouldn't do front only, either rear only or both front and rear (I do both but am never on hard surfaces).

 

[whistlepig]

20 years of snow plowing my asphalt driveway and NEVER take my rear chains off, never left a mark on the driveway. Maybe I'm lucky. Freezing rain and 1/4" of ice I even put chains on the front. Having the chains is....well, to quote someone, not sure who, Luck is the moment when Preparation meets Opportunity!

I have studded chains. If I spin them on asphalt they will leave grooves. My driveway is gravel.