Tired Ford 3000 engine......

[Soundguy]

The alternator is not orginal equipment. Original was a generator. The wiring harness has been modified to "work" w/ the alternator. I didn't do it, was like that when I purchased. I just cleaned things up a bit.... I hope.

The alt is also set up to drive and electric tachometer for engine speed.... so technically, there is 4 connections..... Each a seperate wire.

For the few minute(s) that she ran, it was sweet. I could feel the power of that 4630 engine. Moving it forward/backward, I coldn't detect any change in power output (unlike before the swap).

Let me know what you find. Sounds liek a leak at/before the servo's

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

She's at the shop now. Luckely, the mechanic/owner lives in the house next to said shop. Tried calling/faxing/emailing yesterday/today to leave message.... answering maching not work.... I appologized for bringing it over, but I think they understood. Less then 3 weeks to harvest....still have "this and that" to do, plus normal farm work.

He asked if the seal on the input shaft was there. I said I didn't recall. Would "suck" if it was just a busted oil seal. But as I said.... if it was a "rebuilt", why was the oil in it a bit dark? Plus, why was the filter dirty/had the soot on it???? The insides looked fine....but ...... Told him the old one we pulled, it had oil, but smelled funny (burned) and the input shaft was 1/4 work through.

I'll let ya know what they say.


I'm fortunate enough that the IT shop manual has a schemetic of the original wiring diagram. I just had to peel off the tape to make sure the tracer colors were right. Once I identified the alternator "for sure" and the text/suggestions/info I found on how to wire the GM alternator matched, I wired it up. I understand why they use 'this wire' and 'that wire'. Most of it was 12guage wire that went to the original regulator location from the genny spot. The info on line w/ diagrams helped.... plus the info I got here. (The other tractors/equipment that had a genny, I put a single wire GM type on long ago. They've worked out great.

Oh, if I recall, the bulb in that "idiot" light for the chargin system, it's damned welll the same one (looks like it at least) used on my John Deere 2030's light. Granted, the Deere came w/ a factory alternator AND it's Motorola. Granted, it might have a diode.

As I said earlier, adding the diode would be "simple". The wire they chose for the 'light' orginally is still connected to the OEM regulator plug. And so is the original 'light' wire from the light to plug. I just took a wire and crimped two male blades and plugged it into each slot. And it worked. (They originally had a wire from some other spot, but I figured out they were wrong). If I need the diode, I'll solder it to a wire and plug it in right in the harness..... time will tell if it kills the battery. Have a nice Optima dry cell right now w/ a brand new 00 guage starter cable.

NOTE- if any of you have a poor cranking battery, check the cable! Pleel back some of the covering.... mind had battery gunk/corrosion INSIDE the wires of the cable. No wonder it would crank slow....started to break/corrode things out (lots of resistance). I thought the starter was toast since it was alow cranking.....

Been a long day......long drive to the shop while being towed. Guess I'm good at going on and on in a post.... LOL.

 

[Kaliburz]

Been looking on the net..... found a pic that matched my alternator. It is a 15SI type.... site I found says it was used primarly on Cummins diesel engines.

edit-
Here is an interesting electrical site...
http://www.alternatorparts.com/

Lots of info too.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

She's at the shop now. Luckely, the mechanic/owner lives in the house next to said shop. Tried calling/faxing/emailing yesterday/today to leave message.... answering maching not work.... I appologized for bringing it over, but I think they understood. Less then 3 weeks to harvest....still have "this and that" to do, plus normal farm work.

He asked if the seal on the input shaft was there. I said I didn't recall. Would "suck" if it was just a busted oil seal. But as I said.... if it was a "rebuilt", why was the oil in it a bit dark? Plus, why was the filter dirty/had the soot on it???? The insides looked fine....but ...... Told him the old one we pulled, it had oil, but smelled funny (burned) and the input shaft was 1/4 work through.

I'll let ya know what they say.


I'm fortunate enough that the IT shop manual has a schemetic of the original wiring diagram. I just had to peel off the tape to make sure the tracer colors were right. Once I identified the alternator "for sure" and the text/suggestions/info I found on how to wire the GM alternator matched, I wired it up. I understand why they use 'this wire' and 'that wire'. Most of it was 12guage wire that went to the original regulator location from the genny spot. The info on line w/ diagrams helped.... plus the info I got here. (The other tractors/equipment that had a genny, I put a single wire GM type on long ago. They've worked out great.

Oh, if I recall, the bulb in that "idiot" light for the chargin system, it's damned welll the same one (looks like it at least) used on my John Deere 2030's light. Granted, the Deere came w/ a factory alternator AND it's Motorola. Granted, it might have a diode.

As I said earlier, adding the diode would be "simple". The wire they chose for the 'light' orginally is still connected to the OEM regulator plug. And so is the original 'light' wire from the light to plug. I just took a wire and crimped two male blades and plugged it into each slot. And it worked. (They originally had a wire from some other spot, but I figured out they were wrong). If I need the diode, I'll solder it to a wire and plug it in right in the harness..... time will tell if it kills the battery. Have a nice Optima dry cell right now w/ a brand new 00 guage starter cable.

NOTE- if any of you have a poor cranking battery, check the cable! Pleel back some of the covering.... mind had battery gunk/corrosion INSIDE the wires of the cable. No wonder it would crank slow....started to break/corrode things out (lots of resistance). I thought the starter was toast since it was alow cranking.....

Been a long day......long drive to the shop while being towed. Guess I'm good at going on and on in a post.... LOL.

A word of caution! Keep a close watch on the Optima gel-filled battery at first. If they overcharge even slightly, they have a tendency to explode. They AREN'T vented. (Seen it happen. UGLY!) Other than that, they make for a great tractor battery. (Warranty info should list a high limit to charged voltage. Mine is 14.9v max.)

A good friend runs a very successful auto electric shop. He's a "NOTHING BUT O.E.M." kinda guy EXCEPT with alternators. He's a staunch advocate of single-wire alternators. I recently re-did the electrical system on one of my tractors, and I'm just about done working on a friends 135 Massey that had "issues" with it's wiring. (Got hung on a tree limb while bush hogging. Ripped most of the alternator wiring off. Buddy just started hooking things up 'till the ammeter started bouncing. What a mess) I had a heck of a time getting Tony to sell me an "old fashioned" external regulated 3-wire alternator and "black box" voltage regulator for mine. He's pushing single wire units, with "cut-in" and charging voltage tailored to the needs of the particular application. He sold me one for another tractor of mine that needed a new alternator. It works great.

Looking at tractors built in the late 1960's and on in to the early '70's, I see electrical systems that were a bit lagging behind automobile technology of the same period. That's about the time tractors first started seeing alternators.

 

[Soundguy]

I just can't get used to the 1-wire jobs. Too many high rpm ones on the market.. and it's easier to get a 3 wire to drop in, vs having a custom 1 wire choppe dup to excite at specific rpm.. etc.... I like the idiot lamp/diode scheme much better. For tractors with no ammeter/voltmeter, the idiot lamp gives you indication if the unit is producing power..e tc.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Some time ago, I put a single wire on a 1958 Yale forklift & on a JD 60 two cylinder that has an amp guage. The '60', when the alt kicks in, gets pegged out for an instant. Best thing that ever happened to that Yale was the Alt- gets turned on and off a lot- battery tends to get weak (that was before the Optima too). I have a 6 Volt alt on a Farmal Super A. Works. Other then the '60' and my 3020, all have Optima batteries. Longest stint so far is just shy of 8 years for my Optima- in a tractor. At least I didn't have to change the cables due to corrosion.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I just can't get used to the 1-wire jobs. Too many high rpm ones on the market.. and it's easier to get a 3 wire to drop in, vs having a custom 1 wire choppe dup to excite at specific rpm.. etc.... I like the idiot lamp/diode scheme much better. For tractors with no ammeter/voltmeter, the idiot lamp gives you indication if the unit is producing power..e tc.

Soundguy

The one-wire alternator my friend sold me is actually an O.E.M. unit for the most part. (Clark forklift I believe he said) He did change the internal reg. to a low cut-in/12.7v. HE carries brackets for mounting them on Fergies and Ford N's. Says he sells hundreds a year.

I actually like the external regulator/3-wire alternator/ammeter or voltmeter set-up WHEN IT'S WORKING. And it seems to be fairly reliable. The one I just replaced on my 150 was the original (1971) alt. and reg. There's been a few batteries over the years. Very basic, simple to understand, and easy to test.

I can't tell you how many old diesel tractors I've seen where the charging system flat does not work. Owners will put the battery on a charger every couple months and let 'er ride. With no more "demand" once started than a fuel gauge,and maybe an oil pressure gauge, that's enough juice (provided no one ever turns on the lights)

I can just see myself sitting out in the middle of a field and the engine won't fire because I didn't take care of the charging system. Don't like that visual....

 

[Soundguy]

I put an old hitachi alternator on my yanmar 1700.. used a 10$ external old style chrysler voltage regulator with it. Worked perfect.

1 wire alts can be ok.. if you can get them tailored to your needs. The rpm requirements are the most important issue. I have a buddy with a jd B and he wanted an alt on it. He had a hard time finding one that could be excited at 800 rpm.. when he did find it.. he might as well have just either bought a 3 wire delco 10si.. or went back with the original generator.. as he payed premium for the customized 1 wire. Whereas.. the 3 wire jobs can be had for 25$ out of the barrell, already tested at the junkyard.... Hard to argue with a working 25$ alternator that just needs a push button switch to make it work.. or a diode to make it 'automagic'... etc.

Either of the 3 systems.. 1 wire, 3 wire, or external reg beat a genny for most applications. EMI/RFI interference comes to mind.. Most consumer grade Digital VOM's are alergic to the brush noise and are almost useless when troubleshooting the old gennies. The big benefit of the genny is that it can be run either polarity.. and that it is quite robust for accidental reverse polarity issues. Charge rate for many tractor gennies also relegates them to light duty status. most of my units run in the 'regulated' range of 7a to 25a... Pretty abysmal when compaired to a cheap delco 10si that pumps 45+a.. even at slightly low rpm... Still the robustness has it's merits.. especially on the older tractors, as most tractor owners I know may be decent mechanics.. but think electricity is black magic...

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

No specifics yet..... tranny/engine assembly was just hoisted out as unit when I called..... maybe they'll let me know tomorrow.

Oh, they put 2 gallons of oil in the tranny to get her moving...... ended up puking the oil out as they were positioning under their big hoist. That must have been a nice mess.....

The single wire alternators (both 12 and 6V), I ended up ordering via JC Whitney years back. Gotta rev up the 60 a bit before the guage moves, but it works.....

I've toyed about switching out the 24V genny on the 3020 (little brother to the 4020). But what's that old saying.... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...." IT charges...but the set up on the 12V lights needs to be improved/fixed....

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I put an old hitachi alternator on my yanmar 1700.. used a 10$ external old style chrysler voltage regulator with it. Worked perfect.

1 wire alts can be ok.. if you can get them tailored to your needs. The rpm requirements are the most important issue. I have a buddy with a jd B and he wanted an alt on it. He had a hard time finding one that could be excited at 800 rpm.. when he did find it.. he might as well have just either bought a 3 wire delco 10si.. or went back with the original generator.. as he payed premium for the customized 1 wire. Whereas.. the 3 wire jobs can be had for 25$ out of the barrell, already tested at the junkyard.... Hard to argue with a working 25$ alternator that just needs a push button switch to make it work.. or a diode to make it 'automagic'... etc.

Either of the 3 systems.. 1 wire, 3 wire, or external reg beat a genny for most applications. EMI/RFI interference comes to mind.. Most consumer grade Digital VOM's are alergic to the brush noise and are almost useless when troubleshooting the old gennies. The big benefit of the genny is that it can be run either polarity.. and that it is quite robust for accidental reverse polarity issues. Charge rate for many tractor gennies also relegates them to light duty status. most of my units run in the 'regulated' range of 7a to 25a... Pretty abysmal when compaired to a cheap delco 10si that pumps 45+a.. even at slightly low rpm... Still the robustness has it's merits.. especially on the older tractors, as most tractor owners I know may be decent mechanics.. but think electricity is black magic...

Soundguy

Back in the day, when tractors all had generators, there wasn't any particular need for much more. Maybe a couple low wattage headlights, and on the "DELUXE" tractors, a taillight. Gas engines were still common, and their ignition systems required more current than all the "features" combined. Along in the 1960's, saftey issues started demanding more lighting, the possibility of installs of fender radios, planter monitors (early "Dickey-John" monitors would drive you nuts when used with a generator) , cabs with heat and air, and all sorts of "new-fangled" modern features. On the majority of new "alternator equipped" tractors, anything in the 30 to 50 amp range was then considered adaquate. Nowdays' it's hard to find a (new) replacement alternator UNDER 50 amps.

In talking with my friend who owns the auto elect. shop, he mentioned that the biggest demand nowdays for generators, aside from "by the book" restorations, is because of older tractors having the tach drive on the gen.