To 3PT or to subframe, just the facts.

[brandoro]

I was at my local Kubota dealer a couple of days ago and asked about the possibility of breaking the top link out with a BH. I was told they had it happen once but it was a unit that was being transported on a trailer on a rough road. The BH bucket had been chained down while still up in the air on the transport lock. The stresses introduced by doing this with the tractor being bounced around on the trailer must have been enormous.
They had never seen one that failed while being used.
My BH runs a pump off the PTO, I usually run the tractor about 1500RPM (2600 RPM for 540 PTO) to get good working speeds on the cylinders. If I put a restrictor on the swing cylinder I could run it a bit faster for the rest. I have never tried it at full PTO RPM, I started out at the idle and worked my way up to where I was making good progress without the movements being too difficult to control well.

 

[Bedlam]

one thing I did was to rig up a separate throttle for the rear. it was a simple bicycle brake cable and sits on the fender, I use it for the backhoe, cordwoodsaw and the wood splitter.
I am surprised that they don't make these as aftermarket accessories, its very handy. I had forgotten about it till this thread.

 

[dfkrug]

one thing I did was to rig up a separate throttle for the rear. it was a simple bicycle brake cable and sits on the fender, I use it for the backhoe, cordwoodsaw and the wood splitter.
I am surprised that they don't make these as aftermarket accessories, its very handy. I had forgotten about it till this thread.

BEDLAM:
Here is a photo of the Woods 3pt setup you mentioned. The anti-lift
baces in the photo are 5/8" steel. It is one of several I have left over from
converting to subframes. One guy who uses the 3pt with his hoe on
a Cat 2 Case 480 has buckled the toplink and he did not use the
braces at first. Now he uses them.

RE a fender throttle....I would LOVE one for my Kioti. I sold my B21 last
month and its fender throttle was one of its best features!

 

[Reg]

I only just got mine (Amerequip 8600, rebranded and color matched to several "factory" tractor big names) and had also read a lot of the "conventional wisdom" that a sub frame is "better".
My sub frame attaches to the 3pt lift arm lower mounting pins, so those two points are common to 3 pt or sub frame mounting wrt how forces are exerted on the tractor. The front of the sub frame hangs from a cross rod of the loader sub frame, which in turn runs back to the rear axle as well as some hefty attachments to the tractor's frame. It "Looks" as if it would be more substantial than the various bracketry that I have seen pictured in the Amerequip generic manual for this hoe.

As far as ground clearance goes, I think the sub frame goes up and between the loader's sub frame rails, so whatever ground clearance has been lost was already lost by buying the loader. I s'pose aNOTHER fairly substantial underframe for sliding around on wouldn't be a BAD thing to have. Other than the hypothetical rock that you might have cleared were it not for the loader and/or hoe sub frame.

 

[Reg]

Thanks for the feedback. This is ALL stuff I can use!!

dfkrug pointed out that A properly installed 3-pt hoe MUST use an anti-lift bracket to keep the 3PH from rising. There are anecdotes about operators getting pinched by a hoe that suddenly rises. I don't know if I have that anti-lift bracket. Can someone post a photo what that is supposed to look like?

Sorry I didn't point out my tractor and hoe brand/sizes earlier. I have a Montana 4344HST w/FEL and the Montana 8600 backhoe.
Specs are here:

Tractor

backhoe

Great tips on digging rocks and roots. Also thanks on the info about running speeds. I just wasn't sure and saw that the tach has a special indication of PTO and set the throttle there. I'll try different speeds to see if I can control the hoe easier. Sure wish there was a throttle back there to kick it up when I need the extra power, but then maybe at some lower RPM I'm getting full pump power anyway??

Methinks that "Montana 8600" Hoe is in fact an Amerequip 8600 with light green paint on it. Check out the Amerequip web site for the EXACT same specs.

 

[redneckford]

application and use-----application and use----cutting rice field levee versus digging stump's and rocks(Boulders) I have seen several Industrial machines severely damaged digging stumps and the operator (idiot) allowing the front end to bounce off the ground causes bolts to shake loose and things to break if you are careful you can do alot with either. If sil comes to borrow it (just say no??)he can tear up the world with little effort!!!! NOTHING IS IDIOT PROOF!!!!

 

[skipro3]

Methinks that "Montana 8600" Hoe is in fact an Amerequip 8600 with light green paint on it. Check out the Amerequip web site for the EXACT same specs.

I'm sure it is. My dealer has Branson's as well. The Branson hoe was EXACTLY the same only red. That's kinda good to know; it must be good enough that tractor manufacturers are accepting them as their own and will cover them under any warranty.

BTW, spun a rear tire off the rim. My first flat tire. The fun never ends...

But before it did, I got in some more hoe time. I'm telling ya, that hoe is the best thing since sliced bread. I dug 4 holes for trees in an hour, where it would take my 8 hours to do by hand. My back is very grateful I've got this thing. Well, off to find posts how to air up tubeless tires.

 

[8561]

I believe the photo Irwin posted on the previous page was from a Kubota that the dealer neglected to install the heavy duty top link on. I remember that thread from a while back. Other than that, I've not seen a photo of a broken tractor resulting from use of a properly mounted three point hoe. I've been on here for 5 years and the topic comes up in various forms routinely.

There was also an early post that no tractor manufacturer would warranty a 3 point point. Absolutely false. At one point in the very recent past, the only hoe that Kubota sold as a Kubota branded one was a three point. I presume they were honoring warranties on their own designed, built, matched and sold equipment.

I've had a 3 point Wallenstein 7' backhoe on my B2410 Kubota for 5 years. So far, so good. I wouldn't question that a subframe is a sturdier mount, although I've never owned one. But, like I said, there's a lot of talk about broken tractors from using these, just very little proof of it.

 

[dfkrug]

8561:
As far as I know, Kubota still sells its 4690 hoe, which uses the 3-pt.
They also state that you can only use THEIR 3-pt hoe on their tractors.
I confronted a factory rep at a World AG Expo about that issue and
he admitted it was not consistent.

Montana has openly stated their hoes were Amerequips, but they used
to have their own model #s. Old Montana hoe is pictured.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That's my point and my main question; are there any 3PT backhoe attachments that have broken their tractors? I've heard of it, read talk of it. But always seems to be "my brother's cousin's sister's uncle" that the story was heard from. No first hand experience?

I find it incredible that the design has been out there so long that:
1. The manufacturers of tractors would design and sell their own model to go with their tractor if they are prone to damaging the tractor.
2. That manufacturer of tractors would not immediately void warranty if a backhoe of any size were attached to their tractor of another make/model.

I had posted pics on here years ago of my friends Kubota that was broke because of a 3pt backhoe. They had it in their shop repairing it when I took the pics. If I remember right it was an old B-series

A big enough tractor can run a 3pt backhoe with little or no effort or any side effects. A small cut just isn't built heavy enough to handle a 3pt backhoe. If you want to buy a 3pt backhoe and put it on a small cut no one can stop you and I personally don't care what you do. But I also know if you do and the tractor breaks in half there will be a thread on here about how the "tractor" had a "casting defect".

I do not know of any tractor OEM who will warranty a tractor that had a 3pt backhoe. They sell them because bigger tractors can use them and if you only need it occasionally they are fine. But some people buy them and use their tractors like a full size Industrial TLB and these are the guys who have problems with them, well, so do the guys who just plain abuse their equipment.