To BH or Not to BH?

[MSU_Keith]

This is my first post to TBN after lurking for several months. This is a great resource for information and I would like to thank the regular contributors for the information I have already learned.

Here is my situation: We are in the process of purchasing a 13.5 acre parcel that we plan to build a house on. The parcel is mostly flat with 6 acres of hardwoods, seven acres of heavily overgrown field and a half acre pond. The house will go in the hardwoods with a 650' driveway. A mud driveway is already in place but will need to be graveled and dressed. The house will require 650' of trenching for utilities, 500' of trenching for the run to the septic field (the only approved location /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif) plus the hole for the septic tank. Also, clearing of some trees for the house.

We plan to leave the overgrown field area for a year or two until the house is done but eventually would like to put in a little orchard or berry patch. I will need to build a small bridge to get the tractor to the field area. We are only planning on an acre of finishing mowing when all is done.

The machines I am considering are Kubota B7800/2910, Kioti CK30/LK3054, and NH TC29. Haven't looked at the comparable JD yet but plan to. The choosen machine will have a factory FEL but the big question is the BH:

-Is it reasonable to assume that I will be able perform the trenching work myself with this class of machine?
-I have not quoted someone else doing the trenching yet, any estimates as to how much of the BH purchase will be recovered by the DIY trenching? Seat time is not really an issue as I am looking forward to moving some dirt. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
-If I choose to go with the BH I am leaning toward a subframe machine - is this the right choice knowing it will eliminate some factory hoes?
-Any other colors with good dealers in SE Michigan I should consider?

Thanks for your help,
Keith

 

[hard_yakka01]

I have a NH 759C which is a three point attachment, what a PITA to mount and it certainly moves around while using the unit. I thought I would save money by buying a tractor mounted BH and not renting or getting a used a true BH unit, I don't believe that anymore. If I the unit would go on/off easier I would have found lot's more job's for it, but with only 1 tractor and multiple implements/jobs to do it's been sitting there awhile.

I've heard that sub-frame mounted units are easier to get on/off and don't wiggle as much. I've also heard good reports from people who have the WOOD's brand vs NH.

 

[EddieWalker]

Welcome to TBN

I think a backhoe is probably one of the greatest tools that I've ever come across. I use it for trenching, stump and tree removal, installing culverts, loosening really hard packed dirt that I want to move with my loader, digging huge pits for burying debri and fire pits and enlarging my ponds. I use it for picking things up and moving them around and I use it for getting unstuck when the front bucket wont get me unstuck.

For what you said you need if for, I think you would be wasting your money. The trenching would be faster, easier and cheaper renting a ride along trencher. The septic tank will be installed by the contractor and I doubt he would allow you to dig the hole even if you had the equipment.

Clearing the hardwoods for your house will be a quick and simple job for the dozer operator you hire to build your pad. You can spend hundreds of hours on your tractor, and he will still redo it to meet his requirements.

 

[jfdlaw]

First, check out the Deeres too. A friend has a 4200 with a backhoe that is a nice machine. He left it with me last winter and I had a chance to do a lot of digging.

How much time do you have to do the work? Are you in a situation where time is not an issue? If so, you might be able to do it with your tractor and save enough money to pay for the BH. But it will be time consuming.

Personally, I would check into prices for having the job done by someone with the right equipment or renting the proper machine when its time to do the job.

Still buy the tractor. They are tons of fun and a good tool to have, but I'm not sure you'll justify the backhoe. I haven't been able to justify buying one for my tractor. If I was looking at one for my tractor, I think I would look at the Woods units, although I thought I read that Kubota is coming out with a subframe mount BH. I liked the Deere unit on my friends tractor. I have no experience with the NH units.

 

[rdln]

I dont think the projects listed warrant the purchase of a backhoe but combined with all the little things that you will run into.......it is worth it.

FYI, Edison quoted underground electric to my barn the difference with and with out a trench dug by them was $1.20/foot

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Most of the things you listed are better hired or rented, but If I had that land, I would get a BH in a minute. You will be glad you did for the hundred things you didn't list that you will wish you had one for.

If you're looking for an excuse to buy one, that's OK, but a small tractor mounted BH will take a lot of time to do these things. If time really isn't a problem and you really do enjoy using your tractor, then just do it whether it makes sense or not.

I have a small BH on my JD4110. The BH is a frame mount and doesn't move around or feel lose or worrisome, but I've never used any other BH so I can't talk to that issue really.


Cliff

 

[dsgsr]

Take the time to look at the JD 4400/4410 with the #48 hoe or the new JD model equivalents 3000 models and the 448 hoe. I have operated real hoes, (TLB & excavators) an am impressed with the #48 hoe on my 4700. For its size it performs very well. To mount and unmount the hoe from the tractors sub-frame is a snap.

David

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> I think a backhoe is probably one of the greatest tools that I've ever come across...

[snip]

...For what you said you need if for, I think you would be wasting your money. </font>

I think there is a message here. I think the message is that the poster has no idea at this point how useful the backhoe will be to him if he ends up buying one!

First question is how bad would the purchase hurt the budget? For one person it may hurt a lot more that it hurts the next. In my case I bought and forgot. So havng the backhoe is wonderful. If buying it had hurt more, maybe I would be less happy.

Anyway, I have a 3PH backhoe for my Kubota B2910. Once I learned how to put it on and take it off, it became a piece of cake to do most of the time. I say most of the time because every once in a while, no matter what one does, things seem to have a way of going wrong.

I only have 3.7 acres and have used my backhoe for a lot of things. A LOT of things. With over ten acres I can't imagine not getting one's money's worth.

As far as trenchers go, they are great and fast, but what do you do if the local code demands at least a 16" wide trench, that is 4" of sewer pipe and 6" of sand or crused stone on each side of it, in addition to what they require on top and below the pipe? My 16" inch bucket answered the call to duty.

I would buy my backhoe again, and would not give it back even if the dealer offered to give me my full purchase back in exchange. I like having the backhoe that much.

Trenching is not that fast though. I think I could do between 25 and 30 feet per hour of 4' deep trench max. On a good day when the clay here was not sticking in the bucket too bad.

Attached is a picture of a 250 foot trench that I dug this fall for the sewer line that will replace the septic tank (if they ever get their end done and tell me it is OK to hook up at the house end...)

Anyway, a small backhoe is not a large backhoe. Small backhoes take longer. Small backhoes are weaker. But small backhoes are there when you need them. That is a big plus in my mind. There are so many things that one would not rent a backhoe to do, but what you will use the backhoe for if you have one.

I love my backhoe. I don't count the costs of owning it. I consider it my country club membership... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

edit: PS, the new replacement for the B2910 Kubota, the B3030 will have a 4-point subframe backhoe named the BH75...Best of both worlds...subframe and no warranty issues if something goes bad...same manufacturer...

 

[BigAl]

I have had both style of mount . Subframe is a much better set-up for me .
One thing I have not seen mentioned here is this : Most Contractors don't work on weekends unless you want to pay overtime or extra . Most homeowners like to be there when the work is being done .Usually the weekend is the only time you have off . That means you need to take time off from work and lose wages to watch someone else dig your project . Are you seeing the big picture yet ? The price of that rented and operated hoe just went up .
Big Al

 

[Steve_Miller]

Henro, That sewers going to hit about a hundred mile an hour when it reachs the street if it ever does.

I agree with Henro's assessment and will add that when I feel like going out to do something that requires the backhoe , I just jump on and go, when I feel like stopping I stop, point being, its there when your ready to play, sorry work.

Steve