Tool Stuff, That I Was NEVER Taught, EVEN After 70 YEARS!!

[CADplans]

OK, I thought I had a pretty good understanding of simple tools.

So much so, that the school teacher that married my niece in 1969,
I have ALWAYS teased him that he did not know which end of a screwdriver fit in his hand!!

WELL, Now, I come to find out, that I fit in that EXACT category,,

China stuff is relatively new, compared to what I have fixed since the 1950's,,

In between USA made, and China made,, there was Japan made stuff,, motorcycles, machining tools, drill presses, anything,,

Well I have always owned some sort of Phillips head screwdriver,
and, I have used basically the same Craftsman set of screwdrivers since the 1950's, replacing some when they were lost, with the identical tool.

NOW, I come to find out that Japan made stuff has a screw that LOOKS like a Phillips head, but, the typical Phillips head screwdriver will destroy the Japan made screw.

There is a special tool called a JIC driver, just for Japan made stuff,, it is not a Phillips head,
WHY DIDN'T ANYONE EVER tell me!!??

This video has poor audio, but it is only one minute, so it does not take much of your time,,
(You would think a company as big as Chapman would know better audio is needed in this day and age,,)

"Does your Phillips driver feel like it doesn't quite fit that screw? Chances are that's because it's not a Phillips screw, it's a JIS screw.

JIS, or Japanese Industry Standard screws are just different enough in shape that Phillips drivers will not fit well and slip/strip them. The difference is in the leading angle of the point of the driver. Phillips bits have a larger angle and therefore don't bottom out in the JIS screws, causing slippage. "

So, have you ever found out that you knew less about a tool, than you THOUGHT that you did??

 

[Doughknob]

Almost daily.......

 

[TractorTYMe]

I've learned some of the most useful things in my life AFTER I was 30..........

 

[Roadworthy]

This is not a Chinese or Japanese phenomenon. What you are calling a Phillips head screwdriver is one of a type known as a cross point screwdriver or cruciform. You should first understand there are sizes to Phillips - 00,0,1.2.3.4 and like that. Smaller numbers are smaller sizes. Numbers 1 and 2 are most common. There are other American cross points though. The first one that comes to my mind is the Reed and Prince. There may be other names for it. I ran into it in the seventies on Hewlett Packard equipment. If you wish to know more about fastener head types and the tools to turn them try here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

 

[jmc]

I had a 1968 Suzuki (X6 Scrambler) and a 1971 Kawasaki 500 that used "Phillips" screws on the side casings. Soft metal too. Hated Phillips screws ever since. Finally started using a hammer driven impact driver on them. Maybe I just had the wrong screwdriver? (the rinky-dink screwdriver in their toolkit wasn't good for much)

 

[JasperFrank]

Everything learned after 50, is somewhat disappointing.

 

[bullbreaker]

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[flyerdan]

The motorcycle cases in that era had widespread issues with the phillips screws. I had a '71 Yamaha 175 and the local dealer had a wall with blister packs of socket head screws to replace each one; you just got the package with your model. Can't remember if it was dealer or aftermarket, but it took care of the coned head issue.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

A good set of screwdriver bits will have multiple cross head bits in approximately the same size. Some are pointed, some are not, several have different angle to the blades. Mostly it doesn't make much difference, but if it's a hard drive it's worth it to match the bit to the screw.

 

[ericm979]

JIS cross head are indeed subtly different than SAE Phillips. It's something you learn from working on motorcycles.

See JIS Cross Head Screws and Drivers | Peter Verdone Designs

The heads on JIS screws on '60a and '70s Japanese motorcycles were pretty soft and easily stripped, especially with Phillips screwdrivers that don't quite fit.

 

[Captain Dirty]

One common JIS screw that has been buggered by countless mechanics, both DIY and professional, using Philips drivers is the flat-head screw that holds the brake disk onto Honda vehicles when the lug nuts are not installed. I replaced my screws with Torx head screws before I found out about JIS and bought some JIS bits. JIS will turn Philips but not vice versa.

 

[s219]

There is also a similar head called "pozidrive". It's the standard screw head for ski bindings and some woodworking applications.

What's the Difference: Phillips vs. Pozidriv Bits - Fine Homebuilding

Despite their similarities, Phillips and Pozidriv bits are not interchangeable. Learn how to distinguish between these two useful systems.

www.finehomebuilding.com

 

[dfkrug]

I did not learn about JIS Cross screw heads until many years after replacing all the case bolts on my first m/c (1975 Honda 360T) with an aftermarket set of allen-head bolts. A hammer-driven impact tool was absolutely necessary if you want to work on one of them.

I wondered about the little dot on the heads, however.

In the 90's I first saw and purchased some special Philips-head driver bits called "P2r" for screwguns. They are a reduced-head P2 bit, and they work great. Hard to find. May work OK for JIS cross cuz they are not very pointed.

 

[CalG]

If the cross drive screw head has small dash marks stamped between the drive slots, THAT'S NOT a Phillips drive! ;-)

eta

s219 pointed that out... oh well, call me anything but late for supper.

 

[two_bit_score]

Everything learned after 50, is somewhat disappointing.

Everything I learned after 50 I needed to know before I was 40.

 

[mrmikey]

I didn't see it mentioned so maybe I missed it but JIS screws usually have a small dimple between one of the crosses........Mike

oops...I just noticed Calg mentioned it

 

[oosik]

Never seen a screw head like that - mrmikey. Maybe I should use my reading glasses more often.

 

[mrmikey]

Never seen a screw head like that.........

Didn't know there was such a thing until I started riding and checking my brake and clutch fluid and cursing when I rounded out the screws. A fella asked me, " do the screws have a dimple" wth are you talking about....sure enough, once I started looking I found them on my bike, 4 wheeler, generator carb etc................Mike

 

[OldPaint]

Everything learned after 50, is somewhat disappointing.

No, not really true. I learned how to make beer after 50. That wasn't disappointing at all.

 

[Oaktree]

Well, I just learned something new today. Had never heard of JIS screws before, always just thought those screws were just cheaply made screws (I never bought the hype that somehow Japanese stuff was better than everyone else) that stripped easily.
Yep, learned early on about the hand impact drivers for working on motorcycles.

I gotta ask, why so many types of screw heads? Is it some sort of conspiracy to make us buy more tools or just the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing?