Tool Stuff, That I Was NEVER Taught, EVEN After 70 YEARS!!

[OldPaint]

If I damage anything that resembles a cross blade driver, JIS, Phillips, or any other thing of the sort, I usually do my best to find a suitable replacement with a Torx head on it. While damaging the screw is bad, damaging the tool is worse because all it will do then is damage other screws that it might have otherwise removed. It may be just a subtle twist of the flutes, but enough that it doesn't properly fit in teh slots of the screws it was designed for. I was actually taught in high school how to repair the point on a Phillips but have never had lasting success with one I damaged. If I see a point damaged, it becomes scrap metal rather than risk hurting more screws. I do NOT like cross-blade screws. Besides being much more reliable, Torx screws look cooler than cross-blade. I'll use hex socket (Allen) if I can't get what I want with Torx. I like flat blade even less than cross blade.

 

[OldPaint]

Well, I just learned something new today. Had never heard of JIS screws before, always just thought those screws were just cheaply made screws (I never bought the hype that somehow Japanese stuff was better than everyone else) that stripped easily.
Yep, learned early on about the hand impact drivers for working on motorcycles.

I gotta ask, why so many types of screw heads? Is it some sort of conspiracy to make us buy more tools or just the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing?

If you want 5 ONLY ways to do something, just ask 5 engineers.

 

[JethroB]

Those motorcycle screws, ha. Wide flat bottom and soft too. I can still remember those on my 1972 Honda Trail 70. It didn’t take a 12 year old too long to strip them out even with that dinky reversable red handled screwdriver that came in the kit. Me and three friends each got one for Christmas. We were badazzes.

 

[Cycledude]

yes JIS is better than Phillips but both of them are going out of style and being replaced with much better alternatives like Torx

 

[RandyT]

My understanding is the JIS is a straight cut cross to help get proper grip for removal and torque. the standard phillips has sloped edges to the bit which is suppose to cam out to prevent overtorque aka strip the head

 

[Agvg]

There is also a similar head called "pozidrive". It's the standard screw head for ski bindings and some woodworking applications.

What's the Difference: Phillips vs. Pozidriv Bits - Fine Homebuilding

Despite their similarities, Phillips and Pozidriv bits are not interchangeable. Learn how to distinguish between these two useful systems.

www.finehomebuilding.com

And it's a proper design that works, Phillips should have been dead and forgotten decades ago, can't understand that a so bad design still is used, both are of course a inferior design now that Torx is available.

 

[Agvg]

My understanding is the JIS is a straight cut cross to help get proper grip for removal and torque. the standard phillips has sloped edges to the bit which is suppose to cam out to prevent overtorque aka strip the head

It's just a very bad construction, not a feature by design.

 

[Oaktree]

I do NOT like cross-blade screws. Besides being much more reliable, Torx screws look cooler than cross-blade. I'll use hex socket (Allen) if I can't get what I want with Torx. I like flat blade even less than cross blade.

I don't mind phillips screw heads, though I agree on flat blade (slotted). Yeah, torx is an improvement though. Never cared much for allen screws, always seem to find one that's some odd size that's neither SAE or metric.

 

[jmc]

The motorcycle cases in that era had widespread issues with the phillips screws. I had a '71 Yamaha 175 and the local dealer had a wall with blister packs of socket head screws to replace each one; you just got the package with your model. Can't remember if it was dealer or aftermarket, but it took care of the coned head issue.

Looking back on that era, it must have been when Japan was transitioning from making trinkets to sophisticated products. We started riding European dirt bikes and marveled that the handlebar mounted levers bent instead of broke off, like our Japanese handles did. Forged aluminum vs cast aluminum.

Someone told me the first Honda cars imported to the US were chain drive...

 

[dstig1]

One common JIS screw that has been buggered by countless mechanics, both DIY and professional, using Philips drivers is the flat-head screw that holds the brake disk onto Honda vehicles when the lug nuts are not installed. I replaced my screws with Torx head screws before I found out about JIS and bought some JIS bits. JIS will turn Philips but not vice versa.

While I knew about Pozidrive bits as they are common in European cabinet hardware, I never heard of the JIS bit until now. I did find a good solution to the Honda brake disc bolt however. I use a #3 Phillips bit in an impact driver to remove them. Almost always zips them right out. If you use the much more common #2 Phillips, you are hosed. It isn't a critical item for the assembly in any case, so if you mung it up, just get it out however you can and toss it. It does make getting the caliper back on easier, but you can do it without the screw. But Maybe I should get a couple JIS bits now that I know...

 

[dfkrug]

"...Phillips should have been dead and forgotten decades ago, can't understand that a so bad design still is used..."

Philips head is hardly ideal, but they replaced slotted screw heads in the sheet metal and woodworking worlds. They were a big improvement, but conventional hex head is pretty good.

 

[Agvg]

"...Phillips should have been dead and forgotten decades ago, can't understand that a so bad design still is used..."

Philips head is hardly ideal, but they replaced slotted screw heads in the sheet metal and woodworking worlds. They were a big improvement, but conventional hex head is pretty good.

Yes, it was an improvement when the T ford was produced, but Ford replaced the T but this Phillips junk remains. PZ is much better in all kinds of ways

 

[Agvg]

For all kinds of cheap non std screws from Asia and std Phillips I find reduced Phillips bits works better.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

And it's a proper design that works, Phillips should have been dead and forgotten decades ago, can't understand that a so bad design still is used, both are of course a inferior design now that Torx is available.

The Phillips is easier to make, and thus les expensive than a torx. It doesn’t matter much if your buying an handful of screws. Starts to matter when you buy them by the millions.

 

[Agvg]

The Phillips is easier to make, and thus les expensive than a torx. It doesn’t matter much if your buying an handful of screws. Starts to matter when you buy them by the millions.

PZ drive works much better and should not be particularly more expensive, a screw design that handles torque so badly as Phillips is pure junk and thankful it's almost dead for all serious use.

 

[KennyG]

The poor torque capability of the Phillips is a design feature. It was intended to be used on assembly lines to prevent over-torquing and thread stripping. Unfortunately it then found it's way into all kinds of other applications.

 

[Dragonpharm]

Those motorcycle screws, ha. Wide flat bottom and soft too. I can still remember those on my 1972 Honda Trail 70. It didn’t take a 12 year old too long to strip them out even with that dinky reversable red handled screwdriver that came in the kit. Me and three friends each got one for Christmas. We were badazzes.

View attachment 725462

Loved my Trail 70. Wish my parents had kept it. They are worth a fortune now relatively. Definitely agree the tool kit that came with it was more aggravating than useful. So much so that it would have almost been better without. However, almost every tool kit that comes with a motorcycle or ATV is relatively useless. My wife's Honda ATV kit isn't horrible at least.

 

[Agvg]

Hmm, the idea that it's a design goal to make Phillips screws cam over is a myth says people that have read the patent papers, just a bad design.

The cursed Phillips Screw… - Open Bench Project

How did the Phillips screw permiate our lives, and why has it stuck around when it is so easily stripped and there are such better options out there?

obportland.org

 

[ruffdog]

Years ago, my hobby was working on atvs, motorcycles, snowmobiles, cars, etc. and I found out early on that better tools solved most problems with fasteners. Even with straight bladed screwdrivers, a good fit makes a big difference. For very tight #3 phillips screws, I use a good fitting bit with my Snap-on manual impact.

Snap-On PB108A Impact Driver Set | eBay

 

[k0ua]

So, did you know that the coupler on a grease gun is adjustable?