Top link cyl advice

[bones1]

I'm looking to put a hydraulic top link on and I have two questions so far.
1.My factory top link measures 18" closed and about 36" extended.The only cylinder I have found so far is 17.5 closed and 27.5 extended.Should I be concerned about the shorter extension? Surplus Center Item Detail

2.What are sae#8 ports in english?.I'm used to 1/4 pipe etc.What is a good hose id for this?.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Only you can tell what extension you'll need for your top link. The full length of 36" sounds like a lot, but if you need the full length you're going to have to have to settle for a longer closed length. The closed length will be stroke plus 7 1/2" and open length will be closed length plus stroke. So for a 36" length you'll need a stroke of 15" and you'll have a closed length of 22 1/2".

Surplus center is a little confusing when they call things "SAE." The ports on that cylinder are what is called "o-ring boss." On the surplus center website, if you look under "fittings" they have them listed under just "o-ring." The sizing of the fittings is for the hose they go on, so the "SAE 8" fitting goes with an SAE 8 hose. SAE sizes are in eighths of an inch, so SAE 8 is a half-inch hose. The actual size of the fitting is 1/4" bigger than the hose, so a SAE 8 fitting is 3/4" in diameter. The thread is just straight 16 thread-per-inch, so you'll sometimes see SAE 8 called 3/4-16. Clear as mud?

For a top link, you don't need the capacity of a 1/2" hose. A 3/8" hose will be less expensive, and will slow the cylinder down somewhat which will make it easier to make fine adjustments.

Finally, that cylinder has 1" eyes. If your tractor has a category 1 hitch you want 3/4" eyes. Surplus center sells a bushing that reduces it to 3/4". Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Surplus center is a little confusing when they call things "SAE." The ports on that cylinder are what is called "o-ring boss." On the surplus center website, if you look under "fittings" they have them listed under just "o-ring." The sizing of the fittings is for the hose they go on, so the "SAE 8" fitting goes with an SAE 8 hose. SAE sizes are in eighths of an inch, so SAE 8 is a half-inch hose. The actual size of the fitting is 1/4" bigger than the hose, so a SAE 8 fitting is 3/4" in diameter. The thread is just straight 16 thread-per-inch, so you'll sometimes see SAE 8 called 3/4-16. Clear as mud?

Hose and fitting dimensions are in sixteenths of an inch. A -8 hose is 8/16 of an inch, or 1/2".
A SAE or any other fitting(except for pipe) is the exact size that it is labeled. NPT is larger thread than what is labeled. This is because NPT is used mainly for pipes, which are measured on the outside, hose and fittings are measured on the inside. However much larger the NPT thread is than it's fitting size is however thick the metal for the thread is. Larger size NPT fittings may be 1/2" or more larger than it's stated fitting size.

Whenever you hear of a port referred to as SAE, it is straight thread o-ring. There is also SAE 45 degree flare which is very similar to JIC. They even interchange except for -6 and -12.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

You're right, I got a little sloppy there. Which is a terrible thing to do with hydraulic fittings, because while the actual fittings are rigidly standardized, the terminology is all over the place.

What I should have said is that the SAE dash number is the inside diameter in 16ths ( not eighths, don't know why I said that). For SAE-8 o-ring boss the male fitting has an outside diameter of 3/4" and they are sometimes referred to as having a 3/4-16 thread, which is correct -- but somewhat confusing.

The full name for these fittings is "SAE J514, Straight Thread O-Ring Boss."

Here are some of the names they go under:
Discount Hydraulic Hose calls them "Straight Thread O-Ring"
Surplus Center calls them "SAE" or "O-Ring"
Northern Tool calls them "STOR" (short for Straight Thread O-Ring)
They are also known as "O-Ring Boss" or ORB for short.

Calling them just "SAE" is particularly unfortunate because there are two other popular SAE standards, 45-flare and 37-flare (also called JIC).

Here is a link to a chart showing actual sizes: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/fittingsandadapters/threadprofiles.pdf

Here's what I don't get: the SAE STORB fittings seem to be the most popular for cylinders and valves, and least popular for hoses. What's up with that?

 

[bones1]

Thanks guys, I think. Ok.Tell me if I have picked the correct fittings for this sae 8 cylinder .Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Thanks guys, I think. Ok.Tell me if I have picked the correct fittings for this sae 8 cylinder .Surplus Center Item Detail

Yes, the -8 ORB, or SAE, or STOR(all the same) will screw right into your cylinder. Will also give you your -6 pipe thread. Also, no tape or sealant on this type of pipe thread. Never sealant on a pipe swivel. Pipe swivels seal on the internal surface, not on the threads.

Quicksandfarmer- STOR is popular on valves as it provides an effective seal onto a flat surface. Not popular on hoses because you would need either the male or female end to swivel, like on a pipe thread swivel crimp fitting. This requires an o-ring, which always, overtime, leak. Also, it is not good to screw a hose directly into a port. You run the risk of damaging the port whenever you disassemble anything. I would rather change a damaged fitting going into a valve than a damaged valve.

 

[HayDR]

I'm looking to put a hydraulic top link on and I have two questions so far.
1.My factory top link measures 18" closed and about 36" extended.The only cylinder I have found so far is 17.5 closed and 27.5 extended.Should I be concerned about the shorter extension? Surplus Center Item Detail

2.What are sae#8 ports in english?.I'm used to 1/4 pipe etc.What is a good hose id for this?.

You mt want to take a look ate the CCM toplinks with the double piloted check valve. Also the CCM Hyd. toplinks have chromed and hardened rods for longevity of use.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

You mt want to take a look ate the CCM toplinks with the double piloted check valve. Also the CCM Hyd. toplinks have chromed and hardened rods for longevity of use.

I don't know how you guys can sell them for the price you do. I can't make that cylinder for what you guys charge to buy it.

 

[jinman]

Thanks guys, I think. Ok.Tell me if I have picked the correct fittings for this sae 8 cylinder .Surplus Center Item Detail

You won't have the right stuff until you buy from CCM. Cylinder, hoses, fittings, everything. No reason to look anywhere else.

After three years, my toplink works as good as it did new; solid as a rock.

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

Bones these are the items that I ordered to outfit my Montana 3040 with a toplink. The 45 degree adapters work well and you still have room to turn a wrench, those 90's you showed may not give you enough room to get a wrench

I still have issues with it that I have not figured out. The cylinder retracts when great pressure is applied and then returns to the original position. Others on TBN suggested it was air and that makes sense but I have not gotten it out yet

Surplus Center Item Detail
Surplus Center Item Detail
Surplus Center Item Detail
Surplus Center Item Detail
Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[bones1]

Great advice folks. Dallas, do you happen to have any pictures of your setup?.
Thanks for all the information so far. Also, what quick couplers and which set of remotes did you use.I have the same tractor.

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

here are some pictures. I also forgot to metion that using this cylinder you can only use the upper top link hole. If you use the others you will crush the cylinder barrell. I went to napa to get my male quick couplers they were part #8010-4, then I read here that they needed to be 8010-4P for the poppett. I have not changed them and they are working but I will probbably get the right ones when I add a side link cylinder.

 

[Lasgambler]

I bought the Carter & Carter with the check valves and could not be HAPPIER!!!

 

[digicamnut]

What does the inside of the cylinder look like and how does it function?

 

[jinman]

What does the inside of the cylinder look like and how does it function?

It's dark and oily and functions very well.

 

[bones1]

It's dark and oily and functions very well.

?? Me too Jinman. Might be able to rigg up a small light inside the cylinder so it can see what it's doing.
Dallas, thanks man, that's exactly what I needed to know. Could the qc without the poppet be causing your cylinder to back up?.
Carter & Carter is not out of the question.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Carter and Carter is the solution. And that's coming from a guy that sells cylinders. I can't make the C & C cylinder for what they sell them. I own a hyd shop and when I need one, I'll order theirs. Is that endorsement enough?

 

[GreenMtns]

?? Me too Jinman. Might be able to rigg up a small light inside the cylinder so it can see what it's doing.
Dallas, thanks man, that's exactly what I needed to know. Could the qc without the poppet be causing your cylinder to back up?.
Carter & Carter is not out of the question.

You really will want to follow Andy's (Wayne County Hose) advice on this. The CCM top link comes with a check valve to keep the hydraulics from drifting. When you set it at the length you want it will stay there even if there is a little bypass in your hydraulic system. That will not be the case with one you build up using Surplus Center parts. That is not saying there is anything wrong with Surplus Center parts. It is just very hard to find the check valves with the correct pressure settings to build your own. It might not be impossible to find the check valve but in the end you will pay as much as the CCM or more so why go to all the trouble?

 

[bones1]

Well, I have a quick hitch on the back and that adds about 2 inches to my stock closed length of 18" on the top link. So if i'm figuring correctly I now need a closed length of 20" on the cyl.
I don't see that option at C&C. Want to keep as much up motion as I can.Or am I thinking backwards...again?.

 

[jinman]

Well, I have a quick hitch on the back and that adds about 2 inches to my stock closed length of 18" on the top link. So if i'm figuring correctly I now need a closed length of 20" on the cyl.
I don't see that option at C&C. Want to keep as much up motion as I can.Or am I thinking backwards...again?.

If I had a quick hitch and needed extra extension, I'd build a bracket on the tractor's toplink hitch that would give me the extra length. From that point, the rod would extend the same amount. The problem with going too long on the minimum length is that a boxblade or other implement will not be able to rotate forward enough. This was my problem with a toplink that was just 2" longer than stock. It also would move 3/4" in and out like it was compressing air, but it was actually the rubber hoses ballooning that caused that to happen. The rigid hydraulic lines and the DPOCV on the CCM toplink totally eliminates any rod movement. I've had both types of cylinders and I can assure you that the CCM cylinder is the way to go. Experiment all you want, but don't deprive yourself of owning such an excellent tool as the CCM Toplink. I wish you were close enough to let you use both of my toplinks side-by-side. I'd make a "CCM zealot" out of you too.