Top or Tilt?

[Geotech]

Hello all,

I've been enjoying my L2501 and have about 20 hours on it now. I might be in the market to add a rear remote and a hydraulic cylinder when I take it in for the 50 hour service.

I use the box blade a LOT, but still need to improve my skills...a LOT. Even more than *gasp* my grapple!

I find adjusting the top link is pretty easy and I find that is what I adjust the most. Recently I adjusted tilt for the first time and it was a huge pain compared to adjusting the top link.

So, one on hand, it seems that it would make the most sense to get a hydraulic top link since I adjust that the most. On the other hand, I might use the tilt feature a lot more if I had a hydraulic tilt cylinder...

I assume the overwhelming majority would opt for the hydraulic top link given a choice between the two. Still, curious to get some opinions one way or the other for getting a cylinder for the top vs the tilt. I don't feel like shelling out the full amount to get both top and tilt at the same time. I might add the other later.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you are having the dealer install the remotes, best to have them do both of them at the same time. It will cost hundreds more if you split the installation. At least ask about it.

I highly recommend getting float featured valves. Having the float feature increases the capabilities of the top & tilt cylinders.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[Geotech]

Thanks MtnViewRanch.

My dealer was surprised that I might want both. Said that top n tilt installs are usually only installed on bigger tractors. Not that they can't be put on a small one like mine, just not normally from his experience...Maybe it's due to the fact if one has the funds to get top n tilt, they'd have spent more money on their tractor too.

 

[/pine]

"Experience" with T&T is being able to make adjustments to 3PH implements without stopping or getting off the machine...what difference does the size of the tractor make when it comes to making something easier to use and get more professional results because of it...

Having T&T on a 3PH makes a night/day difference regardless of the size of the tractor...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks MtnViewRanch.

My dealer was surprised that I might want both. Said that top n tilt installs are usually only installed on bigger tractors. Not that they can't be put on a small one like mine, just not normally from his experience...Maybe it's due to the fact if one has the funds to get top n tilt, they'd have spent more money on their tractor too.

Well, I have provided T&T sets for quite a few BX models lately. Maybe :confused3: your dealer should take a look at what people are actually using, not just what he supplies.

 

[wagne223]

I have Top and Tilt on my L2501.

The top link is used all the time when using the box blade.
It is also convenient because I trailer my machine a lot. I can easily retract the top link for extra implement clearance while loading and unloading.
I even helps get the mower really high when you get stuck in the mud or need to clear barb wire from the blades.

As far as tilt, I like it when I need it but for the other 80 percent of the time it is annoying. Like all hydraulics, it moves over time so you have to remember to keep an eye on the tilt angle. Especially on those long mowing days.
The other related issue is after the tractor sits for a week or more, a small amount of air seems to enter the quick connection making the drifting issue worse.

I have learned to fully cycle the tilt cylinder 3 times when I first start the tractor for a workday to "prime" it. This keeps the drifting to a minimum.

Again, annoying but not annoying enough to remove the tilt cylinder and install when I need it.

 

[ericm979]

I only use tilt when box blading across a slope. If it's flat I don't use it, and I don't use it for other implements (chipper, rotary cutter). I use the tilt all the time. I tilt the chipper up so I can get it out of the barn which has a short ramp at the door. And to set the angle of the chipper when putting it down on uneven terrain (which is most of my terrain). For the rotary cutter I don't mess with the top much once I have it set right. Both cylidners do leak down a little so there's some repositioning every few times I use the tractor.

Top and tilt both make attaching and detaching an implement easier. I hook up the non tilt side first and then use the tilt to get that side to line up.

If you're getting remotes get two- it's not much more $$ than installing one.

 

[Geotech]

I have Top and Tilt on my L2501.

The top link is used all the time when using the box blade.
It is also convenient because I trailer my machine a lot. I can easily retract the top link for extra implement clearance while loading and unloading.
I even helps get the mower really high when you get stuck in the mud or need to clear barb wire from the blades.

As far as tilt, I like it when I need it but for the other 80 percent of the time it is annoying. Like all hydraulics, it moves over time so you have to remember to keep an eye on the tilt angle. Especially on those long mowing days.
The other related issue is after the tractor sits for a week or more, a small amount of air seems to enter the quick connection making the drifting issue worse.

I have learned to fully cycle the tilt cylinder 3 times when I first start the tractor for a workday to "prime" it. This keeps the drifting to a minimum.

Again, annoying but not annoying enough to remove the tilt cylinder and install when I need it.

That is something I would not have thought of. My tractor typically only gets used every one or two weeks, sometimes it sits for three or four weeks. I don't have any leak down issues with the 3ph as I have forgotten to lower it a couple times and it stayed up with a 430 lb box blade on it. I haven't forgotten the loader up. If the top link leaks down while the tractor sits, does it require some kind of adjustment, or does it just snap back up when you start the tractor?

 

[IXLR8]

As others have suggested. If you are adding one remote... have them add the second it will be cheaper over all. I have top and tilt on my tractor. When using my box blade, I use the tilt all the time, rarely use the top now that my road is in fairly decent shape. When I use my rear grader blade, I use top and tilt about the same. If you choose not to do both cylinders at once, which one you get will depend on your primary use. After using my box blade with manual adjustments, I will not have a tractor without both top and tilt cylinders.

 

[wagne223]

That is something I would not have thought of. My tractor typically only gets used every one or two weeks, sometimes it sits for three or four weeks. I don't have any leak down issues with the 3ph as I have forgotten to lower it a couple times and it stayed up with a 430 lb box blade on it. I haven't forgotten the loader up. If the top link leaks down while the tractor sits, does it require some kind of adjustment, or does it just snap back up when you start the tractor?

Like any hydraulic on the tractor, once you start the machine you simply move the control to reposition the cylinder.

Dont get me wrong, I feel that top and tilt is a great option and I would not be without it.

I just wanted you to be aware that you have to periodically check the position.

 

[DK35vince]

Like any hydraulic on the tractor, once you start the machine you simply move the control to reposition the cylinder.

Dont get me wrong, I feel that top and tilt is a great option and I would not be without it.

I just wanted you to be aware that you have to periodically check the position.

I have top and tilt cylinders with check valves.
With the check valves they never leak down. They stay where you put them.
Something like this for a top link.2x8.25x1.18 Category 1 Hydraulic Double Acting Top Link Cylinder | AMA | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[Gordon Gould]

Like others have said get at least two and maybe 3 rear remotes. I got 2 from the dealer. Then later added a 3rd function valve and now I am thinking of adding more rear remotes. You never know what you will want in the next 20 years or more. It's cheaper now.

I have Top-N-Tilt from Fit-Rite on a 30 hp tractor. The best addition I have made for road work. I watch the blade and make adjustments to make it cut the way I want. On my roads it is not realistic that you can set up the blade angles and then not have to adjust them during the whole job. So it is not a bother or even noticeable if they leak down a little over time because I am adjusting them as I go anyway.



gg

 

[Gordon Gould]

To answer your actual question Top or Tilt first. My choice would be Top. For me it is the most useful. If you are running an angled implement like an angled rake or rear blade you can control the tilt with a Top Link. Set the top link so the horizontal shaft or boom (not sure the actual name) of the blade is parallel to the road when you lower the blade. The blade will be parallel to the road surface when straight and at any angle. If you shorten the top-link with the blade angled at 45* to build a crown the ditch side of the blade will drop and the driver side (road center) will raise giving you a crown cutting angle, cutting more on the inside than the center.. Lengthen the top-link and the opposite happens.

And with a box blade it is all about top-link length.

gg

 

[DK35vince]

On my roads it is not realistic that you can set up the blade angles and then not have to adjust them during the whole job. So it is not a bother or even noticeable if they leak down a little over time because I am adjusting them as I go anyway.

Try brush mowing for hours with a side link that leaks down some time. Very noticeable, very annoying. (1/2" leak down at a tilt cylinder can = inches on the outside of a brush mower)
Been there done that. That's why I replaced those cylinders with top/tilt cylinders with check valves. They stay where I put them.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Try brush mowing for hours with a side link that leaks down some time. Very noticeable, very annoying. (1/2" leak down at a tilt cylinder can = inches on the outside of a brush mower)
Been there done that. That's why I replaced those cylinders with top/tilt cylinders with check valves. They stay where I put them.

I understand what you are saying. I was not trying to say that dual pilot operated check valves were useless or a waste of money. I was just describing my situation where adjustment change requirements are noticeable weather from leak down or changing work conditions and not particularly bothersome. Everyone's operating preferences or needs are different and there are usually enough options available to keep everyone happy.

gg

 

[wagne223]

I have top and tilt cylinders with check valves.
With the check valves they never leak down. They stay where you put them.
Something like this for a top link.2x8.25x1.18 Category 1 Hydraulic Double Acting Top Link Cylinder | AMA | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

I'll have to consider the check valve option for the tilt. Thanks for the info.

 

[Bird]

I put both on my B2710 a long time ago, but did it all myself, with some help from other TBN members.

 

[Whitbread]

I built my own top and tilt setup on my 1620 and it's been absolutely fantastic. As others have said, it makes hooking up sooooo much easier when working alone. My only half-complaint is that I didn't use check valve cylinders. I say half complaint because I don't do any rear mowing and put the tilt cylinder in float all the time when box blading the driveway to gently smooth it over without changing the contours. With a check valve tilt cylinder, I couldn't put it in float. If you did a non check valve top cylinder, you could float it when bushogging instead of disconnecting/swinging/chain.

A lot hinges on what your intended uses are. For me, touching a lever once in a while with non check valve cylinders isn't the end of the world and doesn't affect anything. For others, it would be extremely annoying.

 

[/pine]

Never really thought about it because I'm usually making minor adjustments anyway...But wouldn't temporarily disconnecting the rod end hose from the QD on the tilt cylinder solve a bleed down issue? Seems like it would be easier than removing the cylinder for a solid lift arm when mowing etc...?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Never really thought about it because I'm usually making minor adjustments anyway...But wouldn't temporarily disconnecting the rod end hose from the QD on the tilt cylinder solve a bleed down issue? Seems like it would be easier than removing the cylinder for a solid lift arm when mowing etc...?

Yes, disconnecting the rod end hose coupler solves the bleed down issue. As mentioned, it really makes a difference as to what the main uses are. To the best of my knowledge, most people that have made use of the float feature with their top & tilt units would not go back to a non float featured valve.

What I usually tell people is that if cylinder leak down affects the operation of the tractor, then it is an issue that should be dealt with in some way. There are several ways to deal with the issue, least costly money wise is to simply disconnect the rod end hose coupler. Again it makes a difference as to what task is being done and the leak down is an actual problem.

An extreme case was a customer used his tractor every 3-4 weeks. He had no leak down issues when operating his tractor, but he did not like having to readjust the side link each time that he went to use the tractor every 3 or 4 weeks, so he ended up installing a check valve.

Most people are realistic about these things, others not so much. :confused2: