Torsion suspensions

[Rustyiron]

My "feelings" is that on a multiple axle trailer, once you've reached the limit of the torsion movement, 100% of the load is on the other axle.
This doesn't happen with the traditional walking beam spring axles.... as big of a pita that they are to service, that generally means lots of parts and welding new spring hangars on.
At best I'd expect a much shorter service life using a multi axle (torsion) trailer in your rolling fields vs normal road conditions.

 

[Hay Dude]

I haven’t had any axle related issues at all with my Kaufman tandem spring axles. I have heard torsions are not well suited for bumpy fields, but I do drive very slow on them.

 

[Rustyiron]

What I meant about a walking beam HD was the eventual service, elongated holes in the hangars, worn thin spring bolts, etc. that comes after years of working. Dexter actually has a kit to rebuild the walking beam (that's usually call a equalizer bar or something similar) suspension including new hardware, spring hangers that in the past, I've found it easier to just flip the trailer over. Mostly because I don't trust my overhead welding.
I haven't had a torsion, multi axle heavy trailer (10 ton+) but on my little enclosed cargo trailer it's been carefree and flawless. My concerns are conditions like driving over a curb or a little ditch diagonally when loads might be supported one axle (per side) as you run out of travel with the rotational action.
I probably overthink things, but I'm under the impression that torsion axles are not serviceable, at least on 10/12k axles.
All good questions for your trailer dealer.

 

[Hay Dude]

What I meant about a walking beam HD was the eventual service, elongated holes in the hangars, worn thin spring bolts, etc. that comes after years of working. Dexter actually has a kit to rebuild the walking beam (that's usually call a equalizer bar or something similar) suspension including new hardware, spring hangers that in the past, I've found it easier to just flip the trailer over. Mostly because I don't trust my overhead welding.
I haven't had a torsion, multi axle heavy trailer (10 ton+) but on my little enclosed cargo trailer it's been carefree and flawless. My concerns are conditions like driving over a curb or a little ditch diagonally when loads might be supported one axle (per side) as you run out of travel with the rotational action.
I probably overthink things, but I'm under the impression that torsion axles are not serviceable, at least on 10/12k axles.
All good questions for your trailer dealer.

So Diamond C uses Lippert torsion axes, not Dexter.
Dexter offers much longer warranty on their torsions (10 yr) versus spring axles (5 yr).
Looks like Lippert is only 3 yr through Diamond C.
Lippert’s website says 11 years torsion and 6 years spring.

 

[Rustyiron]

I have a buddy with a g/n and a bumper pull Diamond C. They are very nice, but they ought to be

 

[Hay Dude]

It appears the warranty does not extend to the consumer.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/forms/oem_axle_and_running_gear_standard_warranty_effective_1_1_2017_final.pdf

 

[Fallon]

Torsion axles aren't really serviceable. It's a big square tube with a small square tube inside. Between them is rubber that compresses when the small square tube twists. No way to replace the rubber I'm aware of. You can replace the spindles though I believe.

 

[Gee Ray]

I use a 14k gooseneck for my hotshot truck. I used a Moritz with the torsion axles. I had zero problems with the axles themselves. I found that the bearings need more attention perhaps because the axles get deformed. I used this trailer for about 350,000 miles.

I am now running a Big Tex trailer at 14K with a spring setup. At the 350-400,000 mile mark I have had to replace the bearings, several springs, equalizer bars 3 times, several spring bolts and I am on my 3rd set of axles.

I know several people will say I must be overloading the trailers. I do not because a overweight ticket will cost me $$ and confidence from my customers.

The cost to rebuild the spring trailer is much less the the torsion axles but the down time and the difficulty in get replacement parts for the spring trailer is an on going problem.

 

[Hay Dude]

I was told Lippert builds torsion axles to 2 times their rated capacity.
I would assume this is to compensate for the extreme loading one axle must take because it can’t transfer any weight to the other when one axle is lifted off the ground in a ditch.
I am having trouble getting comfortable with the torsion axles, but the more I read about them the better informed I “feel”.

 

[mrmikey]

I would assume this is to compensate for the extreme loading one axle must take because it can’t transfer any weight to the other when one axle is lifted off the ground in a ditch.

I live on a rural road but it's an 80Km limit and it's well travelled from motorbikes to tractor trailers. There's a fella who must live up the road aways from me and i see him going by almost every other day. He's got a 350 Ford and almost always has a tandem torsion trailer in tow.
The hitch is a good 3-4" too high so the majority of the weight is on the rear axle. It makes me want to flag him over and ask him if you only want to use one axle, why not just buy a single axle instead of a tandem.

 

[Hay Dude]

My Diamond C dealer assures me the Lippert rating is good for 11 years on Diamond C trailers with Lippert torsion axles.
I should be ordering soon.

 

[Renze]

Need to know if they hold up on rough ground? Or are they better suited for hard top?

I havent used torsion suspension on really rough ground like trails.

But from my days at the trailer builder, i remember Knott having a sinking chassis by having a retractable equaliser bar between two torsion axles. It allowed to step over obstacles without lifting one wheel above the ground, but they use hydraulic retractable bar to lower the chassis to the ground for food sales wagons on fairs.

https://www.knott.de/fileadmin/Knott/Resources/Public/files/Absenkbare_Drehschubfederachsen_2008.pdf

But if you talk about taking torsion suspension out in the hay field, i dont see any problems with that.

Its just that straight axles with leafs can take turning on the spot better, when the wheels are deeply embedded in mud. The swing arms on torsion axles bend a little sooner when turning a wheel against a kerb, especially on a 3 axle setup when its 2 wheels against one.

When the local landscape contractor loaded my trailer with a Volvo L90 and saw the scale run to 5960kg, i had about 4500kg on the trailer with 1300kg rated axles. I took wide curves when backing it behind my fathers house, to not bend the swing arms. Its still tracking nice. Torsion suspension can take a lot if you use your head.

 

[pmsmechanic]

If I replace an axle(s) on a trailer I'll always replace with torsion. Less maintenance and a lot quieter.

I have several trailers in both styles.

I wouldn't worry about one axle temporarily taking all the weight. If you aren't stupid and are careful you will be ok.

 

[Hay Dude]

If I replace an axle(s) on a trailer I'll always replace with torsion. Less maintenance and a lot quieter.

I have several trailers in both styles.

I wouldn't worry about one axle temporarily taking all the weight. If you aren't stupid and are careful you will be ok.

Sometimes it’s not so much about “stupid” as it is about bumps, swales & ditches in fields.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Sometimes it’s not so much about “stupid” as it is about bumps, swales & ditches in fields.

That's the part you can't control. What you can control is turning sharply while crossing the above. And doing that is what I define as stupid.

 

[nisaacs]

Sometimes it’s not so much about “stupid” as it is about bumps, swales & ditches in fields.

I know the trailer you are looking at has Lippert axles. But, this is what Dexter says about torsion axles. They appear to over build to allow for uneven ground, on the bigger axles especially or spec 3 or more axles. They don't recommend light duty torsion axles configured in more than single or tandem's. To get 3 or more axles they recommend 7,8 or 10k.

I think torsion axles are a non-issue for your use. Just get'em.

Dexter site:

https://www.dexteraxle.com/user_area/content_media/raw/LIT28000TorflexFlyer.pdf

https://www.dexteraxle.com/user_area/content_media/raw/applications-manual-(lit-008-00).pdf

 

[cannuck]

I may rapidly wear out my welcome here, but this is a subject I have a lot of experience with and some very strong opinions about.

To start with: EVERYTHING sold into the "recreational" trailer market is absolute garbage. I no longer build with anything but automotive (medium duty truck at HayDude's weights). But if you are not looking to spend a king's ransome engineering and building one-offs there are some important things to know.

No experience with Lippert, so will comment on Dexter. Make darn sure you order replaceable spindles because if you are working high miles and big loads the bearings will fret and start walking on the spindles, and it is a LOT cheaper to replace them than a whole axle. My torflex experience is both off road and long distance OTR. They are simple, maintenance free and reliable - up to a point. What I find is when loaded up around 80% or more of rating the rubber deflects enough to cause severe tire wear. Forget about multi axle installations unless you can keep trailer dead level. I have ordered a 3 axle matched set and even dead level different tire wear. Found the load at same deflection (kept dead level by air suspended two vehicle) vaired over one ton from axle to axle. Travel very short (thus HUGE loading of one axle over bumps) but damping is actually decent.

When you say 10k and 235 tires I assume you are giving up on super singles and going with duals. Problem with that is no room in a tiny 16" wheel for any brakes that could stop a 10k axle. Keep in mind you are almost at steer axle weights of a class 8 semi tractor - and have you ever seen one with the toy car brakes that go into a 16 inch wheel? Closest you can come is electric over hydraulic discs, but even then look for something that will fill a 17.5 wheel with a 245 single.

There IS a solution to making torsion axles work on rough ground or variable trailer angles but your trailer manufacturer probably can't/won't be able to deliver. Mount the rear axle in trail and front axle leading on a walking beam. I use class 8 rubber bushings for that kind of thing.

 

[Hay Dude]

High loads, but low miles. My main concern is overloading while traveling across uneven fields. Current 38,500 lb gooseneck with 15K Dexter axles & 17.5’s handles this fine

 

[cannuck]

X Closest you can come is electric over hydraulic discs, but even then look for something that will fill a 17.5 wheel with a 245 single.

There IS a solution to making torsion axles work on rough ground or variable trailer angles but your trailer manufacturer probably can't/won't be able to deliver. Mount the rear axle in trail and front axle leading on a walking beam. I use class 8 rubber bushings for that kind of thing.

ran out of time last night, couple things I should have mentioned.

I have one pair of 10k axles that have large brakes that fill a 17.5 wheel and are trailing links that will handle bumps, etc.
For Trailers / STi Air Ride Trailer Suspension

If you don't like the walking beam (dead simple and ultra reliable), Dexter has a "me too" version of Timbren STI:

Home | Dexter Group

www.dextergroup.com

When I look around the Lippert site the only way to get to 10k is with 2 x 5k - and you seem to need 2 x 10k. Why don't you just remount your existing 15k Dexters on a leading/trailing walking beam and be done with it? Here is a nice article about building a trailing/trailing walking beam, with good explanation of how and why torsion axles handle the question of differential articulation (where some otherwise good suspensions do NOT accommodate well or at all).

Walking Beam Suspension – Twin Torsion Axle Super Design

Design and Engineering to Combine the Benefits of Torsion Axles with the Advantages of a Walking Beam Suspension, in a Size for Smaller Trailers.

www.synthx.com

 

[nisaacs]

When I look around the Lippert site the only way to get to 10k is with 2 x 5k - and you seem to need 2 x 10k. [/URL]

Diamond C uses Lippert axles, as high as 16k each.

FMAX216 - Diamond C Trailers