Towing 10.1K with either Toyota Tundra SR5 OR F150 which is better?

[tacticalturnip]

We're producing the best towing pickups ever, regardless of brand, and we're still having the same arguments that were had 20 years ago.

We ought to all drive 1-ton's.

 

[dduncan]

I've a 10.1K enclosed trailer I plan on towing for years. My 2002 F350 CC dually is getting long, both physically (22.2') and "in the tooth" (seats are aging, needs paintwork, etc.) and SWMBO has signed off getting a new vehicle.
Critical parameters to me (other than a good running truck) are a tighter turning diameter/radius (currently about 60') and tow capacity of 10.1K.
We are partial to Ford (only dealership that is "local") and our eldest recommended looking for a Tundra SR5.
So any recommendations?

Speaking of Toyota Trucks, they now built in Texas. See for yourself: Where Are the Toyota Tundra and Tacoma Pickup Trucks Built?

 

[tradosaurus]

^ A 2014 F150 is steel body, pre aluminum (started in 2015), so it damn sure weighs more than 4700 lbs. probably closer to 6000 depending on cab/bed/4x4 config. And the GVWR is probably just over 7000 lbs, the full 7800 "max payload" package is hard to get with a normal cab/options package.

My 157" wb (crew cab 6.5' bed) 2019 F150 on the other hand, is only ~5200 lbs with the aluminum body/bed. The Ford towing docs say I am rated to 10,700 with my 3.5 Ecoboost and the normal towing package (not max tow). But if you subtract the vehicle weight from the GCVWR, its nearly 11,000 lbs of towing capacity. Plenty for me.

BUT! As many others have mentioned, the most important thing to consider when towing heavy with a 1/2 ton truck, is the available PAYLOAD. If you want 10-12% of your bumper-pull trailer weight on the hitch, that is a majority of available payload for most 1/2 tons. Lots of guys buy a loaded up lariat, platinum, king ranch F150 and then are dissapointed to see they only have 1200-1400 lbs of payload. When being prudent with tongue weight, this means they cannot get anywhere close to full rated towing capacity if the truck is also loaded full of people and gear.

Payload Capacity is calculated by:
GVWR - Curb Weight - Tongue Weight.
For the 2014 F150 3.5L Eco:
8200-4764-400 = 3036 lbs payload capacity.

I assumed a 4000 lb trailer and thus tongue weight of 400 lbs. Heavier trailer = lower payload capacity.

 

[tradosaurus]

After reviewing how to calculate payload capacity and towing capacity it's obvious that truck mfg's give unrealistic numbers and that it's up to the consumer to figure out the real numbers.

Again if I'm towing consistently or heavy I would recommend a 3/4 or 1 ton with a V8. If towing consistently in hilly or mountainous terrain then diesel all the way.

 

[Dukeisok]

No experience with Toyota but f150 will certainly do it. Make sure to get both the Max tow and max payload package as payload is the main issue

 

[thecatsandi]

I've a 10.1K enclosed trailer I plan on towing for years. My 2002 F350 CC dually is getting long, both physically (22.2') and "in the tooth" (seats are aging, needs paintwork, etc.) and SWMBO has signed off getting a new vehicle.
Critical parameters to me (other than a good running truck) are a tighter turning diameter/radius (currently about 60') and tow capacity of 10.1K.
We are partial to Ford (only dealership that is "local") and our eldest recommended looking for a Tundra SR5.
So any recommendations?

YOu are really pushing the limit with a 1/2 ton pickup. If you want to safely tow 10K you need a 3/4 or heavier pickup.

 

[kyryder]

The Toyota is a good solid truck that should stay a good solid truck for a long time to come.

By the way, ignore the made-in-the-USA stuff. Toyota makes the Tunda in Texas.

301 Moved Permanently

Do the profits from the Texas built Toyota stay in the US? That's what I thought!

 

[kyryder]

Comments like this show why I don't take much of this seriously.

Toyota will run better, longer.

And even though the Toyota is assembled in Texas, the profits all go to Japan. Thank you for supporting Japan!

 

[Fields_mj]

I've a 10.1K enclosed trailer I plan on towing for years. My 2002 F350 CC dually is getting long, both physically (22.2') and "in the tooth" (seats are aging, needs paintwork, etc.) and SWMBO has signed off getting a new vehicle.
Critical parameters to me (other than a good running truck) are a tighter turning diameter/radius (currently about 60') and tow capacity of 10.1K.
We are partial to Ford (only dealership that is "local") and our eldest recommended looking for a Tundra SR5.
So any recommendations?

I haven't read all of the responses, and I'm sure this has already been said, but for hauling 10K, you're MUCH better off keeping the truck that you have. I'm assuming that you have the 7.3 psd. If so, they don't build a truck that reliable any more and haven't for well over a decade. If the frame and body are good, then fix what ever needs fixed and keep driving it, even if that means putting a new engine in it.

About 4 years ago my 2000 F350 developed an electrical problem. Turns out it was related to the tuner chip I had in it, so I pulled that and everything has been fine since. While I was trying to troubleshoot the problem, I contacted a ford dealership that I trusted. They (the 2nd generation was running the business at the time) literally grew up with my dad, and I did a fair amount of construction work for several of them (new roofs, remodels, pole buildings, ect) back in the 90s. Dad spent hundreds of thousands of dollars with them over the years, buying trucks for the local school corporation to plow snow and haul mowing equipment to the various properties (rural Indiana). I called up the sales manager, who's house I had roofed in '93 and asked the same question you are asking now. I was kicking around the idea of getting a used 1/2 ton that was newer and "more reliable". He asked me what I pulled. I told him I had a 6K lb travel trailer with load distribution and a heavy duty 6x16 equipment trailer with 5400 lb axles that I've been known to come close to maxing out. His response to me was that, despite what the advertisements say, for most applications ALL 1/2 ton trucks max out at 6,000 lbs of towing capacity. The exception to that is travel trailers because they normally have load distribution but even then it depended on WHERE you were hauling it. With all the right bells and whistles, and just the right configuration, and a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience, some modern 1/2 tons CAN tow up to 11K, but those trucks can't stop worth a crap. As far as reliability goes, his opinion was that even with 250K on the clock, and 20 years of rust on the body and frame, my old F350 was likely going to be more reliable than anything Ford has built since. These are the words of a car salesman who has been selling Ford trucks longer than I've been alive and I turned 48 earlier this year.

Do what you want, but when my truck finally rusts out to the point that I don't feel comfortable putting it on the road, I'll be looking for a late 80's/early 90's frame and body that are in good shape and then I'll have what I want built on that. I'll likely go with a 6BT under the hood since Cummins is still using a lot of those components in new engines today. Goal would be to keep a ZF5 behind it with split gears. My goal would be to minimize the electronics involved.

 

[Allen215]

I have owned 2 Toyota Tundra's when you check out the options that come standard on the Toyota and then add them to the Ford you will find the Toyota is cheaper than the Ford. The comment about the built in America is true, Toyota Tundra is the only truck with the most sourced USA parts. I have towed 12,000 lbs over 400 miles with my Tundra running 70 mph. 10 mpg towing 15 mpg empty. I have the 5.7 V-8. They tell me the 3.5 turbo V-6 will do the same only better mpg empty. I used to be die-heart General Motors till I tried my first Tundra. Reliability is number 1 with me. I am a Master Certified ASE mechanic for over 50 years working in the field.

 

[WinterDeere]

Hmm. Toyota Tundra made in southern Indiana - or Ford made in Mexico, Hmm...

... and my Dodge was assembled in Canada, from an engine assembled in Mexico and other components made in USA and ROW. A true NAFTA car, if there ever were one.

Don't assume Chevy/Ford/Dodge means "made in USA", or that Toyota means "made in Japan".

 

[Allen215]

And even though the Toyota is assembled in Texas, the profits all go to Japan. Thank you for supporting Japan!

How about all the USA workers Toyota employees to build and support the product. Do you know that GM is building cars in China and shipping them here?

 

[WinterDeere]

And even though the Toyota is assembled in Texas, the profits all go to Japan. Thank you for supporting Japan!

First off, the argument was being made for buying a UAW car, referring to supporting American workers over other countries. Profits are another issue, but even then, Toyota is a publicly traded company. The profits go wherever the stockholders live, which all over the world, including USA.

I'll probably never own a Toyota myself, but my reason is that I just don't like them and that my best local dealership network happens to be Dodge and GMC, not that I'm pretending to somehow support American workers by buying Dodge.

 

[Fields_mj]

And even though the Toyota is assembled in Texas, the profits all go to Japan. Thank you for supporting Japan!

When was the last time Warren Buffet helped you out? Where do you think this supposed "profit" goes when you buy GM/Ford/Chrysler products? How about this. Which mfg employs more people in the US? Which one buys more of their components domestically? Which of the mfgs are KNOWN for putting their suppliers out of business?

I spent 17 years working as an equipment engineer in the automotive industry. I've supplied a variety of parts directly to all 4 of these companies. The big 3 are typical US corporations. They have NO issues putting you (the supplier) out of business so long as they are getting their components for the absolute lowest cost possible. They might buy their door panel from you here in the US, but they will have the molds built in China (yes, literally) and then ship them to the states and let you fix them at your own expense while also penalizing you for falling behind schedule. This is NOT a joke, this actually happens and it happens a LOT. Toyota, on the other hand, doesn't do any of that crap. Its difficult to earn their business initially. They want a good price, but they want you to make enough to stay in business so that they don't have to go build a relationship with another supplier. About the only way to loose their business once you have it is to provide them with crappy parts. Even then, they will work with you to improve your process to an extent. If you provide them with good quality at a reasonable price, they won't look elsewhere.

Oh, and that Aisin transmission in your new dodge Ram, that's Japanese. The Aisin torque converters that Ford, Chrysler, and GM use, those are Japanese also. Aisin was started by Mr Toyota. Their original purpose was to supply Toyota with parts. He passed it along to his least favorite son who then figured out how to build a great torque converter. This is NOT what you read on Google. This is what was explained to me while I was at their facilities in Nagoya in the late 90's.

 

[deezler]

Payload Capacity is calculated by:
GVWR - Curb Weight - Tongue Weight.
For the 2014 F150 3.5L Eco:
8200-4764-400 = 3036 lbs payload capacity.

I assumed a 4000 lb trailer and thus tongue weight of 400 lbs. Heavier trailer = lower payload capacity.

So you are quoting the maximum available payload (max payload package) which was pretty rare, and could not be optioned on higher trim levels. Most F150s were 7200/7300/7600 lbs GVWR. The only way to get above 3000 lbs payload was with the 5.0L V8 in a 4x2 regular cab, low-trim, long bed model. IE almost no one has that. If you had a crewcab 4x4 3.5L Ecoboost in 2014, your max payload was ~2300 lbs. Not bad at all for a 1/2 ton, but a lot lower that you are quoting.

https://www.motorologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-f150.pdf

 

[deezler]

Judging from this thread, you are going to have a horrible time trying to tow 10k lbs with a Tundra. Most payloads are well under 1500 lbs. So you could only tow 10k lbs on the hitch with no gear or other people in the truck.

Payload Sticker Picture Post

Just looking to have a one stop shop for people to go to see actual payload information for different years, trim levels and configurations. Post a picture of your "Tire and Loading Information" sticker and tell us about your Tundra. (Year, trim level, cab configuration, engine, 2WD/4WD & bed...

www.tundratalk.net

 

[Gator6x4]

And even though the Toyota is assembled in Texas, the profits all go to Japan. Thank you for supporting Japan!

Is he supporting Japan or his pocketbook. Each of us are faced daily with purchase chooses. Pay a inflated price for a American made (Assembled) product or pay half the asking price of the American Made product for a comparable foreign made product. Example in 2016 I purchased a 2016 short bed Chevrolet 1500 series LTZ Crew Cab Chevrolet Trk. The door post sticker says made in Mexico. The differential says made in China, etc. So the truck was actually assembled in Mexico out of foreign made parts and sold to me in the US as an American product.

How many remember the "Job Banks" days at US automotive manufactures that almost forced automakers into bankruptcy in 2006 and the US tax payers bailout of the US big automotive three?

The Struggles of Detroit Ensnare Its Workers

Detroit automakers will temporarily lay off upward of 25,000 workers this year, but are still obligated to pay them more than half of their take-home wages.

www.starnewsonline.com

"Laid-off workers can receive their unemployment pay for up to 48 weeks. At that time, workers can shift into the jobs bank for another two years."

NOTE: I was setting in a Denny's Restaurant in Coca Beach Florida in 2006 or 2007 eating breakfast. Five or six men were setting at a large table behind me. They were in Florida on Vacation. One of the Gentlemen told the others it was nice what GM was doing. He advised he was receiving 95 percent of his monthly salary which included continued seniority building, sick leave, vacation pay, etc at the same accrual rate as he did when working a 40 hour work week and he had not made a car in 18 months. His and the others concern was the benefits only lasted for two years and they were concerned the benefits would not be extended.

Detroit City Michigan for all purposes ceased to be a strong city and turned into a Ghost Town between 2006 and 2009.

How Detroit, the Motor City, turned into a ghost town

Wall Street is celebrating a recovery in the US economy, but the future looks increasingly bleak in America's industrial heartland

www.theguardian.com

 

[kurtm7060]

I am a retired manager of 4 car dealerships with 7 manufactures which included Ford, Nissan and Toyota. I was the manager of all the service, parts and body shops. I went to a comparison shootout of Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet and Nissan before I retired. We raced these trucks against each other, not loaded, beds loaded, pulling 3500 lbs trailers and 10k trailers. The Toyota won every event hands down. We were all shocked. All trucks were V8s. The Tundra blew away everyone. We were all expecting different results. The Toyota has a true 3/4 ton suspension and rear end even though it is rated as a 1/2 ton truck. The reason they rated it thus is for insurance purposes, there is lower rates for 1/2 ton than 3/4. Also people purchase more 1/2 ton trucks. This is a hidden secret. I was in the car business for 30 years. There is not a better truck than a Toyota Tundra but the gas mileage is not as good as the other trucks, this is the only flaw. I would suggest only the 5.7 motor if you are going to tow. If you choose another truck do not get the 10 speed transmission. One of my Ford service manager friends told me the other day that his shop is full of the 10 speed transmissions, he told me not to buy the trucks with the 10 speed transmission. The 6 speed transmissions are great though. I would also suggest that if you want to buy the Toyota that from 2010 up are perfect trucks, if you can find one in great condition. It is easier to find a Toyota that is in great condition used because Toyota customer take care of their vehicles better than others. Also they are usually not used as roughly. Good luck.

I have a 2015 Tundra TRD Pro with the factory rear sway bar that drops the Towing capacity to 9600lbs and I tow my 16' open car hauler with tandem 3500 axles with a 4,000lb car with no trailer brakes fine. It drops my gas mileage down to about 7-8mpg, but it pulls and stops fine. A lot has to do with the way you load the trailer. If the weight isn't evenly distributed, the trailer will sway. This is my first Toyota truck and I love it.

 

[tradosaurus]

I towed a dump trailer with about 6,000 lbs of gravel in it with my F250. The connection from the trailer to my truck was causing issues with the trailer electric brakes. Once I got the system to work I can't imagine towing without the electric trailer brakes.
Stopping without the electric trailer brakes and 6,000 lbs behind me was not fun.

 

[newbury]

Well, it looks like this thread is going to bust the 100 post line.
From my reading of the thread my preferred vehicle would be the Tundra SR5 V8, but they are as rare as hen's teeth.
I've actually run across several F150's that (based on VIN) have the tow capacity, the length and other features. The only main problem is the crazy prices.

I understand all the comments about "it's to small to tow that much", but really, I'm only planning on towing a load of about 7K at the MOST with that truck. Mostly moving household items from Virginia to Mississippi. For heavier loads I'll have the F350 dually.

Thanks for the comments.