Towing Capacity

[dmccarty]

MarkV,

Sorry for the delay in reply but I had to run out of town for a few days
and its real tough to catch up on TBN reading now a days. TBN just moves
so quick! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I think you are right about towing more than 10,000 pounds requiring a
CDL license. I'm pretty sure it does in NC. Most/All? states have a
unified traffic code which should cover CDLs and such. But check your
state for sure.

I think the 26,000 pound limit is only for driving a vehicle that has a GVW
of less than 26,000. BUT if you add a trailer over 10,000 pounds then you
have to have a CDL indorsement.

Later,
Dan

 

[MarkV]

Thanks Dan, I'll sure check the laws here in Georgia before I buy anything. I guess if I ever find the money for the tractor I would like, the trailer cost and rules for pulling will be minor costs./w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

MarkV

 

[Phred]

Mark,

My F250 has a GVWR of 8800 lbs and a GCWR of ~20,000.
The truck empty is about 6200 lbs. Take the difference between this empty weight and the GVWR and you get the load you can put on the truck. So that means my 3/4 ton is really almost a one ton /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. But you have to figure in the weight of you, tools, and the boss.... so like you said go to the scales and if it helps leave the boss at home....

Would a L48 with loaded tires realy run 9000lbs ? I have a 70 hp cab tractor thats only ~6500 lbs without loaded tires. Sounds high.

Also I don't get the discussion about over 10,000 lb trailers. Here is a quote from the Arkansas DMV site:

"9. What type of license do I need to drive?
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided that the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class B - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more and any vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class C - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of less than 26,001 or any such vehicles towing a vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating not in excess of 10,000 pounds comprising: (1) vehicles designed to transport 16 passengers or more, including driver; (2) vehicles used in the transport of hazardous materials which are placarded. Minimum age of 18.

Class D - Any vehicle which is not a commercial vehicle as described above. Minimum age 14 restricted/16 unrestricted.

Class M - Any motorcycle with displaces more than 250 cc's. Minimum age 16.

Class MD - Any motor driven cycle, excluding motorized bicycles, which displaces 250 cc's or less. Minimum age 14. Expires on 16th birthday"

So my truck with a 11,000 lb trailer is under GVWR, and GCWR and does not meet any of the above. So whats the problem?
Not that I recommend trailers over 10,000 lbs or want to down play the danger. You must be very caerful with these kinds of loads. Think about what your receiver, hitch, ball, tires, etc.. are rated to? The weakest link will come back to bite you.

You will also feel like your chained to a stump! (see attached, and this ones about ~9500lbs). These ozark hills had my diesel earning its keep with this load.

Fred

 

[Phred]

Mark,

Here is a smaller one. About 7500 lbs total for the trailer.

I have run similar loads through the scales and have found I am way under all limits. Your local scale should be able to weight each axel of your van and the trailer axels seperately so you can check each.

Fred

 

[MarkV]

Phred,

Thanks, that was a wealth of information. It is also encouraging that a ¾ ton can reach the towing range I am interested in. I really don’t want to get into a dually for the limited amount of towing I expect to do. Sounds like the diesel makes the big difference.

The L48 with loader and backhoe weighs in at 7760 lbs. I heard the figure of 1200 lbs. for the loaded tires so you will be pretty close to 9000 lbs. if the figures I have are accurate. Figuring about 2000 – 2500 lbs. for a heavy duty trailer in the 18 – 20 foot range it would put me right about 12,000 lbs. Does that sound about right?

MarkV

 

[Phred]

Mark,

"The L48 with loader and backhoe weighs ....."

Yes. That makes since. I missed the loader and hoe.
The good news is you can always take the hoe and loader off.
Otherwise you will have a GCWR problem with your van.

Fred

 

[Soundguy]

In any event he should be fine for the 500#/5k# of a class III hitch.. the 250 series is going to have a heavy rear end like the pickup series. If he gets a load distributing clas IV hitch, he may be able to get to the 10K# stuff.

The engine is about right... my yukon is 5.3l, My dodge is 5.9l... and does 10K# with my gooseneck, or 7700 on the hitch.

Interesting note... in the dodge owners manual... the rear bumper meets class III requirements... neat huh? I had a hitch installed anyway...

Chris / soundguy

 

[Phred]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

If he gets a load distributing clas IV hitch, he may be able to get to the 10K# stuff.

<hr></blockquote>



I don't see how legally.
Remeber that the combination of the van and trailer must be less than the GCWR. In this case its only 13000 lbs. Thats why he can only tow ~7000 lbs because the van itself is probably 6000-7000lbs.

I am suprised that the GCWR is that low. The F250 pickup I own has a GCWR of ~20,000 lbs. Thats why I can legally tow a 10,000 lb trailer.

With that said I see guys all the time towing very heavy trailers with a F150......
Ever see a bumper with a 2" trailer ball bolted on that is bent down?/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

 

[BayView]

This is a great discussion, Apart from the practical safety aspects being considered, remember to register your trailer for the max load you will haul. Here in Maine it costs more to register up but the number refgistered for is what the State Police look at in addition to all the practical stuff.
Just a thought.
David-

 

[gerard]

7000 sounds about right for a 3/4 ton/ My 3/4 ton pickup is rated at 7500 trailer weight. Actually the "towing capacity" rating is very misleading as you can usually tow a LOT more than you're rated for - you just can't STOP it. Stopping is really the limiting factor (or so I've been told by people who should know) and stopping under control tends to be a little more important than getting going!!!!

 

[hosejockey2002]

His GCRW is probably that low because he has the 5.4 V8 engine. If he had the V10 or 7.3 diesel it would be much higher.

 

[DK35vince]

gerard,
Stopping with a trailer on shouldn't be an issue if your trailer brakes are working..
I would highly recommend not pulling 7500# without your trailer brakes working properly!

 

[gerard]

Gotta disagree with you wolbert. The trailer brakes HELP with the stopping but most of the stopping still comes from the motor vehicle. (Same concept as with a car. 80% of the braking comes from the front brakes). It's pretty easy to lock up trailer brakes. (I've seen many a loaded tractor trailer lock up the trailer brakes. They just drag along......) I stand by my statement - you can pull a lot more than the rating indicates, stopping it is another matter entirely. (Think about the Strong men that pull buses. They can get them going but they'd have a pretty hard time stopping one after it got some momentum!!

 

[Egon]

Just some thoughts from North of The Border.

Any bumper pull trailer over 5000# requires a load equalizer hitch and brakes.

The combined gross vehicle weight is set by the manufacturer and is on a sticker somewhere on the truck, usually the drivers door.

A load equalizer bumperpull hitch for the 2500's will allow up to 10,000# trailer or less according to the manufacturer.

A fith wheel hitch will increase the the trailer weight to manufactures specs.

What the manufacturer specs is what you are legally allowed.

You also have a load rating on both the front and rear axles which must be met.

The manufactures specs vary from year to year and also depending on options.

Egon

 

[dkane]

An excellent source for vehicle tow ratings is provided by Trailer Life magazine. Web site is trailerlife.com. They provide ratings back several years.

 

[MarkV]

I sure do appreciate all of the input and excellent advice. Phred, I was also surprised the GCWR was so much lower than the numbers I was hearing for the F-250’s. I guess the van does have a lot of metal where the pickup has a bed. Hoesjockey has a good point about the engine size as well. What is interesting is that no where in the option list I used to make the order (including towing packages) does it list towing capacities.

Another interesting point to me is that the trailer towing table, in the owners manual, shows the following.

E-150 5.4L 3.55 Gear 12,000 GCWR
E-250 5.4L 3.73 Gear 13,000 GCWR
E-350 5.4L 4.10 Gear 13,000 GCWR
E-350 6.8L 3.73 Gear 15,000 GCWR
E-350 7.3 Diesel 3.55 Gear 16,000 GCWR
E-350 7.3 Diesel 4.10 Gear 20,000 GCWR

I would have expected larger changes in GCWR between engine and gear sizes than there are. Looks like the moral of the story is, if you want to tow, buy a pickup.

MarkV

 

[Soundguy]

I think he must be reading his weight chart wrong,.. could it be a rear axle weight..? Seems like that vehicle should have more capacity than that...
My dodge truck with a towing package and the gooseneck will do 10k legally....

Unfortunately I see people overloading their bumpers all the time... Unless they have a bumper system that is rated for weight.. they need to spend the 200 bucks and get a hitch...
Big safety issues here..

Soundguy

"If he gets a load distributing clas IV hitch, he may be able to get to the 10K# stuff.
I don't see how legally.
Remeber that the combination of the van and trailer must be less than the GCWR. In this case its only 13000 lbs. Thats why he can only tow ~7000 lbs because the van itself is probably 6000-7000lbs."

I am suprised that the GCWR is that low. The F250 pickup I own has a GCWR of ~20,000 lbs. Thats why I can legally tow a 10,000 lb trailer.

With that said I see guys all the time towing very heavy trailers with a F150......
Ever see a bumper with a 2" trailer ball bolted on that is bent down?

 

[Soundguy]

Air brakes are an entirely different story than electric drum style trailer brakes.
And I disagree, from experience about stopping power of trailer brakes. I haul horses alot... we set our brakes, upon recomendation of the trailer manufacturer, to let the trailer drag the vehicle to a stop.... much easier on the horses.

Soundguy

"pretty easy to lock up trailer brakes. (I've seen many a loaded tractor trailer lock up the trailer brakes. They just drag along......) I stand by my statement - you can pull a lot more than the rating indicates, stopping it is"

 

[Soundguy]

Another thing I noticed that changed recently.. at least here in florida, trailers w/ brakes now have to have a breakaway brake activator installed, so that the trailer brakes engage if the trailer comes loose from the towing vehicle. Found this out on the new 16' flatbed I got a few weeks ago... This must be a recent change, as our 2000 horse trailer didn't have this feature.

Soundguy

"The manufactures specs vary from year to year and also depending on options.

Egon "

 

[Soundguy]

Rear end suspension is also a big factor. For vans.. their load is mainly designed to be distributed over their rear axle...

But yeah.. it looks like pickups are the way to go. I used to have a ford pickup, and the wife had a ford van.. both had the same engine.. the pickup had a higher gcvr and tow rating...

Soundguy

"I would have expected larger changes in GCWR between engine and gear sizes than there are. Looks like the moral of the story is, if you want to tow, buy a pickup."