Towing capacity

[Rebeldad1]

my 20' equipment trailer sits level unloaded. my truck I leveled.
I set my hitch's ball height so the empty trailer's hitch is just about a inch or so below it.

When I load the mini-x I center the load on the trailer so the trailer sits level then roll forward about 6" to add a little more weight on the truck.

Truck and trailer still sit level and handles perfectly. trailer tires all wear the same. Keeps the steering geometry correct as well.

 

[cannuck]

If you're getting 5-6in of drop and are within your load limit then you might want to look into getting better springs or helpers. As for headlights, I can tell you from experience (former VA state safety inspector) if your headlights are aimed correctly when unloaded then they are too high when the rear drops 6in.

As for weight, I tow a couple bumper pulls, one grosses about 16k and has close to 2k tongue weight so I'm familiar with heavier loads on a pickup. My truck will sit level with its rated cargo capacity (2-2.5" drop).

Just blanket telling people they need 5-6in of drop to be loaded correctly is spreading poor information.

As a former high performance lighting distributor, I will tell you that 2" of change of rake is too much. This is why Euro vehicles REQUIRE some kind of headlight height adjustment - manual for cheap stuff, fully automated for more expensive. On my trucks, I go to air rear suspension specifically to deal with headlight, fog light and driving light aim.

In my experience there ARE some trucks that can drop the rear bumper 5 - 6" under load, but in almost every case, they are definitely overloaded. Further, at those loads, brake force distribution is horrible - which these days ABS will fix, but not the ideal way to operate.

 

[deezler]

My apologies -- I mistook you for the #111 post guy who shows a photo of the 5th wheel he is using. Don't assume what I assume, with all due respect...

Lol, I didn't assume, you typed out exactly what you meant. No worries, though.

Do you have a sense of how much the rest of us disagree with your 5-6" drop recommendation? Probably worth a re-think.

 

[crazyal]

I love these kinds of posts. You always get the guy who says "go big or go home". Sorry but you can buy too big of a trailer. I have two I borrow. One is a 20' 10k and the other is a 24' 12k. Huge difference between the two. My truck is rated for 10k so I would never buy a 12k trailer to haul my tractor. Between the extra weight and the extra costs you're just throwing money away for capacity that I would never use. Now if I had a larger truck that could haul 12k (or more) then yes, if I pans on a bigger tractor in the future then yes. If you have the need for a 24' trailer then I would suggest getting one but that extra 4' makes a big difference when it comes to things like turning around.

The OP has decided not to get a trailer which is probably a wise idea. Rarely will you wear out a trailer tire. Instead dry rot will most likely force your hand. I know people who push their luck with 10 year old tires on their trailer but I wouldn't. Then there's finding a place to store it. With 40+ acres it's not a problem for me but for a guy with an acre or two it can be an issue. Then there's moving it from one spot of the yard to another. It takes time so you'll want to find a place to park it when not in use. So unless you are going to use it on a regular basis borrowing, renting, or having the dealer move it most likely makes more sense than investing in buying a trailer.

 

[nisaacs]

With a 5th wheel towing arrangement you are in a totally different circumstance. The exact same load on an identical trailer (but one with a hitch ball tow arrangement for a receiver hitch instead of a 5th wheel pad) WOULD lower your rear bumper by a lot more than 2-3 inches.

Yes, the hitch type you are using plays a part in how much the truck drops. It takes more weight with a gooseneck, to drop the same as a bumper pull. However, my point was/is, regardless of the hitch type, 2"-3" is the most drop you want. At least on a HD truck. That is about the amount of factory rake that is built in. I don't want to go beyond level. Light duty pickup? Yes, they probably have more rake and more suspension travel. I don't have a 1/2 ton anything.

Here are some pictures I just took of my truck, trailer and suspension travel. With the empty car trailer, my rear fender well is 3/4" higher than the front. When I load my Ford pickup (5500 lbs) the truck will drop another 3/4" and I will be level and loaded. Or about a 3" total drop from my empty truck as delivered, new. I have about 500 lbs of Tools, chains, binders and etc., so it probably starts out an inch low from the get go. Note the bump stops. I don't have 5"-6" of suspension. That is about a 2.5" gap with the empty trailer. I need at least 1.5-2" of wiggle room for suspension travel before bottoming out (a no no).

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I love the internet.

So...many...experts...

We are blessed.

 

[Egon]

Nope. Not physically possible. You need tongue weight (obviously) and springs do go down as weight is added by definition of what a spring is. Wheel alignment is unrelated . If you have some auxiliary load leveling system that overcomes the normal drop, that is tangential to this discussion but understood.

Nope: The tongue weight is there. The truck is levelled by the the load leveller and air bags!!

 

[Torvy]

I'm talking using a half ton 4WD pickup. F-150.

Help me understand what you are saying. An F150 used to be a 1/4 ton truck because it's payload was 500 pounds, or a quarter of a ton. Modern F150s are a wide range from 1280 lbs to over 3200 lbs. Most configurations are well over 1700 lbs payload. That makes most modern f150s at least a 3/4 ton truck. There was probably a time when an f150 had a 1000 lb payload. Is that what you mean? You have an older f150 that only has 1000 pound payload?

 

[bcp]

From:

Ford F-Series (sixth generation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"For 1975, the F-150 was introduced; a higher-payload version of the F-100 (intended to circumvent emissions standards), the F-150 would become the most popular version of the model line (ultimately replacing the F-100)."
--------------
Didn't say what the payload ranges was.

Bruce

 

[bcp]

1953 F100

Bruce

 

[Chewwy]

Lots of discussion here regarding inches of hitch drop and use of load levelers or air bags. Nothing discussed about using weight distribition hitches. Proper use of weight distribution hitches can significantly increase the towing capability of most 1500 or 150 tow vehicles by reducing the load on the rear axle, rear suspension, and rear tires.

 

[timswi]

Lots of discussion here regarding inches of hitch drop and use of load levelers or air bags. Nothing discussed about using weight distribition hitches. Proper use of weight distribution hitches can significantly increase the towing capability of most 1500 or 150 tow vehicles by reducing the load on the rear axle, rear suspension, and rear tires.

Very true, I've used those on 1500's and 2500's. Load the bars until the truck is level.

 

[MossRoad]

Lots of discussion here regarding inches of hitch drop and use of load levelers or air bags. Nothing discussed about using weight distribition hitches. Proper use of weight distribution hitches can significantly increase the towing capability of most 1500 or 150 tow vehicles by reducing the load on the rear axle, rear suspension, and rear tires.

Does it increase the capacity, or just make it safer?

No where in my 2003 Suburban manual does it say you can tow more with a weight distribution hitch. It just says you should use one if the towed load exceeds 5000# "for proper vehicle loading and good handling when you're driving."


If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 Ibs (2 270 kg) be sure to
use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of the proper size. This equipment is very important for proper vehicle loading and good handling when you’re driving.

 

[ning]

Does it increase the capacity, or just make it safer?

No where in my 2003 Suburban manual does it say you can tow more with a weight distribution hitch. It just says you should use one if the towed load exceeds 5000# "for proper vehicle loading and good handling when you're driving."


If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 Ibs (2 270 kg) be sure to
use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of the proper size. This equipment is very important for proper vehicle loading and good handling when you’re driving.

You'll find that a typical class IV or class V trailer hitch will have different ratings depending on the use or non-use of a weight-distributing hitch.

It doesn't affect the base vehicle's tow ratings, but you're not allowed to exceed the capacity of the hitch, either, even if you're within the limits of the truck.

 

[Garandman]

To make your day more confusing note how difficult it is to get a straight answer as to the towing capacity of a truck.

If rated 7,000 pounds you will not be perfectly safe at 6,999 and dead at 7,001. I think common sense is needed. Some are totally frightened to exceed 5,000 with a 7,000 rating, "absolutely positively must have a 1 ton to tow 5,000 pounds!". That if they can feel the trailer at all behind the truck then the truck is not big enough.

Huge difference between towing something over the Rockies; over the Appalachians; or across Florida.

 

[ning]

You'll find that a typical class IV or class V trailer hitch will have different ratings depending on the use or non-use of a weight-distributing hitch.

It doesn't affect the base vehicle's tow ratings, but you're not allowed to exceed the capacity of the hitch, either, even if you're within the limits of the truck.

I realized something about weight-distributing hitches which may not be clear to everyone.

Here on TBN we often talk about using ballast on the 3ph not only to permit the loader to actually pick up its weighted load, but also to reduce the load on the front axle.

A trailer's tongue weight acts similarly to the weight in a loader, as it's a weight pushing down beyond the axle (behind the rear axle in the truck, as opposed to in front of the front axle of the tractor), and as a result, it imposes a lever action on the truck with the rear axle serving as a fulcrum - this is why the front of the truck comes up, with some of the front-end weight of the truck getting carried on the rear axle instead.

Using the weight-distributing hitch, you're in effect forcing a rotation around the trailer hitch (actually where it's bolted to the frame of the truck, which isn't exactly a pivot point, and in this case the pivot ends up actually being the front axle of the tow vehicle) in the other direction by pulling up on the WDH bars, which "moves" the weight forwards on the truck - putting more of the tow vehicle + tongue weight onto the front axle instead of it all behind on the rear axle.

Here's a ridiculous situation that's possible with a WDH where they actually put the entire tongue weight plus more! on the front axle of the towing vehicle:

(front wheel drive car can literally pull this trailer without dragging the rear wheels - though it's not going to be able to turn very well.) As you can see here, they've actually put so much tension though that system that they've put the tongue weight plus all of the weight that's typically on the rear axle onto the front axle!

A heavy trailer could potentially overload the GWR of the rear axle of a truck when the entire tow rating hasn't been satisfied yet (especially if that trailer is loaded with an inflexible load that forces you to have a very heavy tongue... like a pickup truck on a short flatbed trailer perhaps). Using a WDH allows you to put some of that excess tongue weight onto the front axle so that the heavy tongue doesn't overload the rear axle.

 

[nisaacs]

Here's a ridiculous situation that's possible with a WDH where they actually put the entire tongue weight plus more! on the front axle of the towing vehicle:

Close, but no cigar The weight distribution hitch also puts weight on the trailer axles. The longer the spring bar, the more weight gets transferred to the trailer.

 

[nisaacs]

Now that I am loaded, the truck is perfectly level. 8.5" fender well gap front to rear. So about 10k gvw on the truck, 19k gcw. Going on a 3 day truck pull in Willcox, Arizona

 

[Egon]

Lots of discussion here regarding inches of hitch drop and use of load levelers or air bags. Nothing discussed about using weight distribition hitches. Proper use of weight distribution hitches can significantly increase the towing capability of most 1500 or 150 tow vehicles by reducing the load on the rear axle, rear suspension, and rear tires.

load leveller / weight distribution hitch. = the same thing!

In most cases one is required for loads over 5000 pounds.

 

[Egon]

Close, but no cigar The weight distribution hitch also puts weight on the trailer axles. The longer the spring bar, the more weight gets transferred to the trailer.

ever see the advertisement with the front wheel drive car towing a trailer with the rear wheels off the ground?? !