Towing with a Tundra - FYI

RobertN · Dec 25, 2005

Tranny gearing depends on the truck. This thread has centered mostly on smaller trucks and 1/2 tons. It used to be that 1/2 tons often came with more "truck like" gearing in stick trannies. Now though, most are more car like. So, 1st gear is not so low.

An automatic does make a difference. The torque converter can add to the felt and available torque. In some cases auto's will handle taller gearing easier than a manual tranny because of that. Maybe it has to do with all the weight of that fluid spinning in there, like a heavy flywheel on a manual tranny?

Seems that 1/2 tons are more car like over the past years than they were before. My Dad's '76 Chevy half ton has a 350 with granny box behind it. Drop that puppy in granny low and you got some gearing! It's 4x4, so put it in low range, and granny, and a baby could crawl faster than than truck would go at redline /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

3/4 tons and up are a different story. 1st gear in a manual is usually always a creeper, or close to it.

Towing safely without brakes is not towing safeley... I had a wire break once on a borrowed trailer. Even with my B series Kubota only weighing about 2300lbs, it made for a scary time when this little Honda cut me off. Fortunately I was taking it easy, and leaving safety room in front of me. Even with a 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel it made for an interesting ride. It was pushing me around pretty good; the anti-lock brakes on the truck were working hard! Fortunately I was on a straight portion of highway in dry conditions. I'm pretty confident I would have been all over the place if it had happened on a curve, or wet conditions. And, having hauled loads before with mini trucks and 1/2 tons, I was really glad to have the size, weight, and big brakes of the 3/4 ton.

I would not have wanted to be in that situation with a 1/2 ton that was overloaded as previously described in this thread. That's not just with a Tundra, that's with any truck, Toyota, Ford, Dodge, Nissan or Chevy.

Bird · Dec 25, 2005

( I had a wire break once on a borrowed trailer. )

In July, 1972, we drove from Dallas to Anchorage. I was pulling a 25' travel trailer with a 3/4 ton Chevy and my parents were pulling a 21' travel trailer with a Buick sedan. After one stop in the mountains, as we were driving along, my Mother was telling Dad about how scared my wife was of that road, and Dad asked Mother, "Well, what would you say if I told you our trailer brakes have quit working?" Mother said, "If anything passes us, I guess we better look to see if it's our trailer." Of course, Dad stopped at the first place we could get out of the road. I began to think we weren't going to find the problem until I noticed a mark on the big wiring cable at the front of the trailer. On one turn he had crimped that cable; not enough to break the insulation and hadn't broken the insulation on the brake wire inside the cable, but had broken that wire inside the insulation. It wasn't hard to fix once I found it, but Dad sure wasn't looking forward to continuing on to the next town with no trailer brakes.

bugstruck · Dec 25, 2005

I wish I could say I had the same experience with the HD trucks and towing durability. Here's the list on drivetrain issues and trucks. All got loaded and worked pretty near the same. All were over 100K when traded and all towed about 5 to 10% of their total milage. Mileage is best recall but I know it's close.
- 1977 F150 Lost auto trans at 48K
- Dodge D-50 installed a clutch around 75K. Never another non-service related part
- 1983 GMC S-15 clutch and manual trans at 98K Never another non-service related part
- 1985 F150 clutch at 67K and clutch and pressure plate at 95K
- 1987 F150 clutch at 76K
- 1987 F250 clutch at 71K and clutch and pressure plate at 104K
- 1993 F250 diesel lost auto at 76K

Admittedly clutches are sort of expected.

My last two 250 series trucks didn't have it any harder than the others, didn't last any better either. I will admit they feel noticably better towing though. The lightest truck was the best one I ever owned and I bet it towed more than any of the others. Not survey enough to be science, but the autos and clutches are still dropping out of these pickups.

Our company fleet of (10) E250 extended vans is loaded pretty heavy with tools but never do they tow anything. We run them to average 160K and very rare to have an auto trans make it. All have trans coolers. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 make that mileage on the original trans. Doubt the imports or 1/2 tons would do much worse at the same loading.

Finally, they are supposed to be getting better and addressing all the failures like I've seen with some of the newer automatics. Time will tell.

As for following all the regulations. Good point and hard to argue. I just recall a time when I enjoyed sticking my toes over the edge once in awhile. Sometimes I still do. Let's me know I'm alive. I see Bird has a little rebel in him too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That Austin brings back memories Bird. My Uncle had one with a 289 shoe-horned in it. Couldn't keep the drive train together in those days but when it worked it ran like a scolded dog. Just a saying..... I place my dog ahead of most people. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bird · Dec 25, 2005

( I see Bird has a little rebel in him too. )

Chris, I did a lot of things when I was younger that I wouldn't want to try now. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

5030 · Dec 25, 2005

( Chris, I did a lot of things when I was younger that I wouldn't want to try now. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

Bird:

I know you can't fit in a sprite or a midget anymore because I am a bit younger than you and I know I can't either. You might get in, but getting out is another matter. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Like my sidecar on my Triumph. I can get in it okay but getting out is, well, an excersize in moans and groans. Probably why my wife abstains from riding in it. I have a sure fire plan to get my wife in it though....,.the little lady (in her 20's) down the road has been bugging me for a ride next summer...........

bugstruck · Dec 25, 2005

Roger that Bird. Otherwise we might not have made it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Put me and the wife (the real maniac) around some teengers, our extended family has plenty, and we "cross the line" and play hard with them. Usually just a set of skis of one type or another these days though. No citations or fines either. However, last time I crossed the scales I was certified overweight by the medical police. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Take care Bird!

RayH · Dec 26, 2005

Ok, Ive stayed out of this for a couple days to let you guys hash it out. So far Im not impressed. Ive taken the unpopular view that the DOT doesnt care what you pull with your private vehicle, they are commisioned with the responsibility of enforcing vehicles that are registered with them (USDOT number on the side). If you get stopped and inspected in your private vehicle its simply because you "LOOK" unsafe for whatever reason. I still believe this, BUT, in the unlikely event that you are stopped and inspected or are sued for whatever reason. Here is the deal.
What the authorities will be concerned with is AXLE weight, COUPLER weight and GVWR. Just like in the big trucks. Every vehicle, including trailers, have a maximum axle weight rating. It doesnt matter what the total weight you are pulling as long as you dont exceed any of the above weights. period. period. period.
I will use my Cherokee as an example bacause I have access to the numbers on it. If someones got a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton, by all means post your ratings and we will discuss those.
My Cherokee front axle is 2500, rear axle is 2700, curb weight is 3100, GVRW is 4900, my Hitch is rated at 3500 and 350 tongue weight without WD and 5500/550 with WD.
From looking at these numbers you can see that theres virtually no way Im coming close to busting the Axle or gross weight by simply towing. The only rating that I am going to have to be concerned about is the hitch weight ratings and limit me to towing 5500lbs.
The trailer also has axle ratings. The trailer I have now is a tamdem axle. Each axle is rated at 4985. As long as I stay under those weights on each axle, Im good to go.

Ive not researched any other vehicles but I think I can safely say that the hitch rating is going to be the limiting factor on just about any tag along combo. Fifth wheels and goose necks are a different story.
What your owners manual says or what the dealers liturature says has absolutely nothing to do with being legal. Its all about that little sticker in the door and on the hitch and on the trailer tongue and if something happens, thats what will be looked at. Just by simply towing a tag along, the door sticker isnt even going to come into play. Your hitch and trailer axles may though.

Jay4200, Lets see what your hitch and trailer axle weights are? If your legal maybe everyone will appologize. Im just guessing but if youve got a classIV from the factory and use WD, you are probably legal towing up to about 8000lbs, possibly even more if you really tighten up the weight distrbution bars because you will spread more weight to the front axle.

Highbeam · Dec 26, 2005

"I think I can safely say that the hitch rating is going to be the limiting factor on just about any tag along combo."

In my experience this is not correct. You can go down to the corner auto store and order a hitch with a very high rating for 150$. I usually see the GVWR of the half ton vehicle being the first to be exceeded. With WD, most off the shelf receiver/hitch systems are rated at 10,000 lbs towing weight.

My 98 half ton pickup weighs 5600 to 5800 lbs empty depending on fuel and whether I have the wife in the truck. The GVWR on the door sticker is 6200. That leaves 4-600 lbs of cargo capacity for tongue weight. Axle ratings are way high and the GCWR which is not on the sticker is pretty high too.

RayH · Dec 26, 2005

That sucks, a pickup with 600lbs of cargo capacity when my Cherokee has 3 times that much.

I could possibly be wrong about which limit will be reached first depending on the vehicle and hitch but if you stay within the limits of the door sticker, the hitch and the trailer, you are legal. If youve got a $150 dollar hitch thats rated for 10000lbs and you keep your tongue weight under 600lbs and your trailer is rated for 10000lbs, you can legally tow 10000lbs with your 1/2 ton.
Keep in mind that the hitch rating has little to do with the vehicle. Hitch companies rate their hitches to cover their a$$ and to fall within the established classes They couldnt care less what its attached to. They are usually way underated because of huge liability if their hitch fails.

cp1969 · Dec 26, 2005

( If youve got a $150 dollar hitch thats rated for 10000lbs and you keep your tongue weight under 600lbs and your trailer is rated for 10000lbs, you can legally tow 10000lbs with your 1/2 ton. )

Don't you have to stay within the GCVW (combination) of the 1/2 ton to be legal? I don't think there are any 1/2 tons that can tow 10,000 lbs., especially with a receiver hitch. I could be wrong.