Towing with a Tundra - FYI

_RaT_ · Dec 26, 2005

Jay, I just got my Ford F250 back together. I lost the transmission in it twice (in a row). The first rebuilt had a problem. Anyway it is back together. I was borrowing a friends 2001 F150 4WD and then my brother in laws 2000 Tundra 4WD TRD. All said and done, I am happy to be pulling my Kubota L3830 with the F250 again. As smooth as the F150 was, it is not super duper with a load. As pleasing as the Tundra is to drive with no load, once the trailer and tractor were attached, its had a whole new personality. Reminded me a little bit of a spoiled cat. There is no get up and go and even worse, you really, really have to watch the tongue weight. I thought the F150 had a miserable load capacity but the Tundra is down right great for loads of bark but load it with a 1/2 of rock or worse, a trailer with a tractor and it gets buried fast. This Tundra had the TRD which basically means Bilstein shocks. I really like the truck but the rear end needs some help. I would personally add some extra suspension if it can handle it. Other then that, it is a very nice truck.

5030 · Dec 26, 2005

Rat:

Size does matter....

Look under the back end of the Toyota and look hard at the axle housing and then look at the axle housing on your Ford. Which do you prefer when you are pulling at capacity or have a load in the bed other than a few grocery bags. I'll let the size speak for itself.

Just like the 150 with it's 8.8. I'll take the 10.5 full floater over the 8.8 circlip any day. n That's why I like my '97 350. I have a '60 full floater in the front and the 10.5 corporate full floater in the back.

Regal · Dec 26, 2005

I haven't read here yet where anyone has mentioned tire ratings either. DOT looks at every angle they need in order to collect revenue. Another thing is in my state you have to license your tow vehicle for gross weight of entire unit, ( truck / trailer / cargo) I would guess that all states are the same.

Highbeam · Dec 27, 2005

"That sucks, a pickup with 600lbs of cargo capacity when my Cherokee has 3 times that much."

Yep, you would be surprised at which vehicles have the most cargo capacity based on actual empty weight vs. GVWR. The big ol' 4x4, crew cab, diesel, F250 has only a small amount of legal cargo capapcity. It is the lightweight vehicles that really have cargo capacity.

Tire ratings will not be any more limiting than the axle ratings unless some boob replaced the OEM tires with a weaker tire. While you're at it, your fancy aftermarket wheels also have weight ratings that can be lower than OEM. Especially on one ton trucks.

uhmgawa · Dec 27, 2005

(
> Incidentally, adding margin to tow rating is rediculous IMHO - as an
> engineer, I can tell you that EVERYTHING is specified with
> considerable margin already, and something that could have significant > litigous ramifications will have HUGE margins built in - you can trust me > on that one. 

Is it just me, or is this the typical engineer response. I bet I've read this a hundred times on this forum when topics such as this come up.

Now, here's a business school, MBA grad response .... WHY TAKE THE CHANCE. It only takes one incident and you'll be facing a stack of legal papers 10' tall.
)

Unfortunately it is likely not just you. Nevertheless an interesting
conclusion though the path leading to such seems confused.

I'd offer the history books will in retrospect offer far more kudos to the
engineer/scientist for contributions to the advancement of man than the
lawyer/businessman. Liberating us from cave dwelling to the age of
the internet and space exploration will in my guess edge out the modern
day ability of one to become self-victimized/rich by spilling hot coffee
in one's own lap.

uhmgawa · Dec 27, 2005

( Rat:

Size does matter....

Look under the back end of the Toyota and look hard at the axle housing and then look at the axle housing on your Ford. Which do you prefer when you are pulling at capacity or have a load in the bed other than a few grocery bags. I'll let the size speak for itself.))

Forget about *size* and focus on mechanical engineerng.

As the owner of both Toyota and Ford trucks I can say I've spent
far more time under/in fixing the Ford than any Toyota I've owned.
I happen to enjoy the Ford very much but the Toyota just runs, works,
runs, works, where the Ford has primarily served as a education in
vehicle repair.

Farmwithjunk · Dec 27, 2005

( Ok, Ive stayed out of this for a couple days to let you guys hash it out. So far Im not impressed. Ive taken the unpopular view that the DOT doesnt care what you pull with your private vehicle, they are commisioned with the responsibility of enforcing vehicles that are registered with them (USDOT number on the side). If you get stopped and inspected in your private vehicle its simply because you "LOOK" unsafe for whatever reason. I still believe this, BUT, in the unlikely event that you are stopped and inspected or are sued for whatever reason. Here is the deal. )

DOT enforcement is handled on a state level. I'm familiar with the state I live in, plus 5 other surrounding states. They all have basically the same methods of enforcement, and the same RESPONSIBILITIES to enforce.

They are tasked with policing commercial vehicles registered with DOT, IN ADDITION to FINDING VEHICLES NOT REGISTERED THAT SHOULD BE. That's the #1 reason they will pull over a non-registered vehicle (possibly towing a trailer?) Once they have you on the road-side, they have their shot at you. Most of these guys are good at what they do. ( I know 6 Vehicle Enforcement Officers personally) They do what they do so often, most are good judges of what is legal and what isn't at a passing glance. They are responsible for keeping over-loaded, over-sized, and illegal vehicles off of ANY road under federal or state jurisdiction. That takes in MOST public roads.

In other words, they can get you anytime their heart desires.

Granted, their main objective is to police interstate commerce involving trucks. But they also are tasked with keeping unsafe vehicles off the roads where those trucks travel.

Over the Christmas holidays, Kentucky Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Officers were writing speeding tickets on major interstates. They were targeting PASSENGER CARS. They made over 200 DUI arrest's in the state during the holiday weekend (per local news broadcast on TV)

Point is, it's just not worth the risk involved to try to tow anything (even one time) that's outside the boundries of "legal" on public roads. That isn't safe for you or me, nor the general motoring public. It isn't prudent as far as an insurance risk. (OR in some cases, a NON-insured risk) And finally, one runs the risk of legal problems (fines, points on license, vehicle impoundment, ect)

The best solution is to be legal, be safe, and to meet (or exceed) all requirements for towing/hauling. At that point, there's no need for debating "what you can get away with".

Dutch445 · Dec 27, 2005

( I happen to enjoy the Ford very much but the Toyota just runs, works,
runs, works, where the Ford has primarily serves as a education in
vehicle repair.
 )
never heard it put that way before!
but I like it!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Reg · Dec 27, 2005

Dive tables are NOT a good analogy.
There is a lot of very conservative rounding, everyone's physiology is different, etc.
BTW, the material that the models are built on is hypothetical, our bodies aren't made of that stuff (-:

Highbeam · Dec 27, 2005

The typical engineer will know that there is a safety margin on these ratings. The good engineer will know that the safety margin is there for a reason and respect the margin. The not-so-good engineer will assume he knows what the margin is and assume he can disregard it.