Toyota vs. Ford

[Bob_Young]

You all have valid points. Every one of the issues you describe detracts materially from the competitiveness of American companies and products. Still, you're not seeing the forest for the trees....nor could I when my day-to-day work was as a manufacturing engineer.

Having been away from manufacturing for about 5 years now has given me a different perspective. The common denominator to each item mentioned and the main issue that differentiates us from the Japanese is RESPECT in all its several manifestations:
1)management for workers
2)workers for management
3)management and workers for the process they are a part of
4)management and workers for the product they produce
5)management for the skills & technology required
6)management and workers for the sacrifices that others have made
7)management and workers for the work itself
8)management and workers for basic honesty and moral behaviour
9)management and workers for the customer
We lack it; they have it.

Every one of the glaring industry shortcomings you all have mentioned can be traced to a lack of respect in one form or the other.

Respect is ingrained in the Japanese from an early age....it's a vital part of their culture and a default attitude among the majority of the people. Here it's laughed at or regarded as a sort of mental defect. As a result, every point of interface which requires respect to work smoothly becomes instead a point of conflict and prone to breakdown. The 'Why' behind this is a subject for another discussion...might have something to do with who's raising the kids these days.

It's surprising, really, that U.S. industry does as well as it does with this albatross hung around its neck.
Bob

 

[Bird]

Bob, it's interesting that you mention the "respect" issue. I thought about posting a response in this thread earlier, but just couldn't remember enough details. I never actually saw or read the books, but in one of the management courses I took in college, a book was mentioned that was written by an authoritative American author who went to Japan to study their management techniques. His book supposedly contained the same conclusions that you have posted; that respect was at the core of their success. He said managers didn't order workers around; i.e., instead of telling someone to sweep the floor, a manager would simply say the floor needed sweeping, and someone would hop to it.

Sounds good and makes sense, right? But then later another author wrote a book agreeing with what was done and said, but concluding that it was for a different reason; FEAR instead of respect. As I believe has been mentioned, in Japan workers start with a company and stay their entire working life. If a worker should be fired in America, he'll go to another company, but if a worker should be fired in Japan, he's out of luck; no one else will hire him, so his entire livlihood depends on keeping the boss happy.

Now of course this was many years ago, so I know that much has changed since then, and I don't know for sure which of the authors was right even back then.

 

[riptides]

You all have valid points. ....

... The common denominator to each item mentioned and the main issue that differentiates us from the Japanese is RESPECT ....

Interesting point, but I'd go against it.

My word is EXECUTION. American business, medical, engineering schools and higher learning in general is still amongst the most sought after educational experience in the world. Unfortunately, the risk models and general company/governmental bureaucracy stagnate or bury the change direction needed for success. Those that adapt, thrive.

-Mike Z.

 

[rox]

I write from a different perspective. I happen to think that American companies are world class. You have no idea how good they are until you move away and have to deal with other non American companies. I swear in France the most used word is the word "no." Well actually it is two words, "Ahhh no" If you want any type of product that is half way out of norm "Ahhhh no" You can never call and jsut order something, sales territiories dictate everything. No way to call and get a price on a widget. Must have sales rep in your area quote you and they typically get the job done in about 5 to 6 days. Eventually you get worn down to their time line. What i do is shop over the internet, i get answers much faster, I get better service and I have various ways to reduce my shipping costs to France. I bought beautiful vinyl signs from a manufacturer in Canada, our printer is in Ohio, found them over the internet. Through TBN I found a good prunning saw, Silky saws, called it was shipped the next day. You jsut cna't get that kind of service in France. There are many small businesses but they carry no stock, everything has to be ordered. Even my local computer store, wanted a wireless DSL modem/router. Had none in stock they had to order. I was in on Saturday and they did have the item on Monday and installed it on Monday so actually their service is great that way. I do like the fact that I jsut leave my laptop with them no IDing the computer with a work order number or anything. Much les complicated. These guys are good and I always bring them olive oil, I know 3 bottles since there are 3 owners. I paid for the part but they installed it at no charge as they did appreciate the olive oil. With the exception of this computer shop I would gladly deal only with American companies. Thee is no "at will" employment in France, thus you get to hear "ahhhh no" a lot!

 

[_RaT_]

I write from a different perspective. I happen to think that American companies are world class. You have no idea how good they are until you move away and have to deal with other non American companies. I swear in France the most used word is the word "no." Well actually it is two words, "Ahhh no" If you want any type of product that is half way out of norm "Ahhhh no" You can never call and jsut order something, sales territiories dictate everything. No way to call and get a price on a widget. Must have sales rep in your area quote you and they typically get the job done in about 5 to 6 days. Eventually you get worn down to their time line. What i do is shop over the internet, i get answers much faster, I get better service and I have various ways to reduce my shipping costs to France. I bought beautiful vinyl signs from a manufacturer in Canada, our printer is in Ohio, found them over the internet. Through TBN I found a good prunning saw, Silky saws, called it was shipped the next day. You jsut cna't get that kind of service in France. There are many small businesses but they carry no stock, everything has to be ordered. Even my local computer store, wanted a wireless DSL modem/router. Had none in stock they had to order. I was in on Saturday and they did have the item on Monday and installed it on Monday so actually their service is great that way. I do like the fact that I jsut leave my laptop with them no IDing the computer with a work order number or anything. Much les complicated. These guys are good and I always bring them olive oil, I know 3 bottles since there are 3 owners. I paid for the part but they installed it at no charge as they did appreciate the olive oil. With the exception of this computer shop I would gladly deal only with American companies. Thee is no "at will" employment in France, thus you get to hear "ahhhh no" a lot!

Rox, thanks for that perspective. I have long known that about certain countries but since this is an "international" website (not sure if China is allowed to receive TBN) I refrain from comment. I understand your post well.

 

[Kubotasrking]

You all have valid points. Every one of the issues you describe detracts materially from the competitiveness of American companies and products. Still, you're not seeing the forest for the trees....nor could I when my day-to-day work was as a manufacturing engineer.

Wow, thanks for the lesson . I'm certain we could begin discussing cyclicality of business cycles and economies and maybe better understand that demand changes, and the larger the business the more lethargic the reaction time. Or, we could talk economic/political systems whereby a prime minister can dissolve congress and create a pseudo-monarchy. There is no NLRB, there is no litigation to excess, there is no ability for dissent. Advantage Japan!

We also could talk about the most productive workforce and most effective economic systemthat has ever existed. It allows for the most fluid wealth transfer the world has ever seen. We could mention that the reason that Toyota is successful is because of American wealth and innovation. We could talk about the fact that in 20 years, a labor shortage in the US will drive more manufacturers overseas, or increase automation exponentially...or both! I'm no engineer, nor am I a holder of any prestigious degree, but it is obvious to me that we simply are the greatest country on earth, and our automakers happen to be struggling through a much needed cultural change. The parochial days of "us vs. them" are over. I hope that my employer learns from Ford's inevitable changes and forces us to change how we do our business too. That way, I'll get to work for my company for 40 years .

 

[mjarrels]

Edward Deming

mark

 

[hazmat]

...most effective economic systemthat has ever existed. It allows for the most fluid wealth transfer the world has ever seen. ....

This is one of the few remaining (and likely the largest) advantages that America still has in the global economy. But what happens when all our wealth has been distributed around the world...

There is book out there called "The world is flat" by Thomas Friedman - it details the rise of the global economy.

 

[cp1969]

Wow, thanks for the lesson . I'm certain we could begin discussing cyclicality of business cycles and economies and maybe better understand that demand changes, and the larger the business the more lethargic the reaction time. Or, we could talk economic/political systems whereby a prime minister can dissolve congress and create a pseudo-monarchy. There is no NLRB, there is no litigation to excess, there is no ability for dissent. Advantage Japan!

We also could talk about the most productive workforce and most effective economic systemthat has ever existed. It allows for the most fluid wealth transfer the world has ever seen. We could mention that the reason that Toyota is successful is because of American wealth and innovation. We could talk about the fact that in 20 years, a labor shortage in the US will drive more manufacturers overseas, or increase automation exponentially...or both! I'm no engineer, nor am I a holder of any prestigious degree, but it is obvious to me that we simply are the greatest country on earth, and our automakers happen to be struggling through a much needed cultural change. The parochial days of "us vs. them" are over. I hope that my employer learns from Ford's inevitable changes and forces us to change how we do our business too. That way, I'll get to work for my company for 40 years .

Degree or not, you certainly have remarkable insight and an eloquent way of expressing it.

Many a holder of a prestigious degree (myself included) cannot reason or write as well.

 

[Kubotasrking]

Degree or not, you certainly have remarkable insight and an eloquent way of expressing it.

Many a holder of a prestigious degree (myself included) cannot reason or write as well.

Thanks, I appreciate your compliment... I have a lot of respect for those who have completed college, and hope to join the ranks prior to age 50.

BTW, I love your quote...funny stuff.