tractor size / designation

Soundguy · Jul 15, 2002

Ok, here's a question sure to be a can o' worms. With all the different tractor size monikers... what is the general consensus of what makes a tractor fall into a specific category.. and what are the categories?
For instance, we have garden tractors - ( lawnmower right? )
oh.. compact utility tractor, estate tractor - ?, farm tractor, ag tractor.

Where do we draw the lines between these designations, and what is it based on? Overall size? weight? HP, combinations of these?

Let the arguments..er.. discussions begin!

Soundguy

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 15, 2002

I'm most familiar with Deere (because I have one) and Kubota (because that's my local dealer of choice). I think frame size and weight is more of a factor in these designations than anything else, but could well be wrong there.

I believe Deere calls all of the 4000 series tractors (and the newer "4000 tens") "compacts" with anything smaller being lawn and garden and those immediately larger (the 5000's ?)being considered utility tractors.

I believe Kubota does the same thing with letter designations with the L series being compacts and, I think, their larger M series being utility tractors.

Here's where it gets interesting, though. Kubota has a relatively new designation, namely "sub-compact," which they use to describe those tractors smaller than their L series yet larger, more powerful and more versatile than their lawn and garden models. The BX-1800 and BX-2200 are a couple of the more popular models in that group.

I'm sure what I've written here will be argued, corrected, augmented and clarified, but these are my thoughts on the subject, nonetheless. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Robert_in_NY · Jul 15, 2002

You are right on line. With the JD lineup, the 5000 series is considerd the utility line and is intended for the hobby farms or small farms like fruit and vegetables farms. The 6000 series is the smallest you will usually see on larger farms as it is mainly a chore tractor that works in the hay fields. So as for farm tractors the 5000 on up is considered for ag use. NH is the TN's and up. Case-IH has the JX line as their utility trators. In my mind and most manf. the 4000 series and Boomer series are compact tractors. Kubota has so many different sizes of tractors they have to keep inventing new designations for their compacts but if looks like what you buy it at TSC it is a garden tractor or lawn tractor.

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 15, 2002

"if it looks like what you buy at TSC it is a garden tractor or lawn tractor."

What a wonderfully simple and concise way of describing those. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

TresCrows · Jul 16, 2002

Hmmmmmmmmmm, so in your opinion the Kubota B series, B7500, B2410, B2710 and B2910 are sub compacts? Kubota calls the them compact utility tractors, the BX a sub-compact utility tractor and the L series a still larger tractor but still a compact. The Kubota B7500-2910 range spans the same approximate weight/horsepower and frame size covered by JD with the JD4010/4110/4115. The JD4200 is approximately equal to the Kubota L3410. Not sure about NH. J

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 16, 2002

No, not at all. I believe the Kubota 2710, 3010, et. al., are compacts. I believe the BX-1800 and BX-2200 are sub-compacts. If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see I never mentioned the B series at all. While that was certainly an oversight on my part I don't see where it was anything at which to take offense or assume I was attempting to denigrate the B series in any way. Frankly, I forgot the 2710, 3010, et. al., were B designation machines rather than L designation machines.

To clarify (and appease) let me say the L and B series Kubotas are compacts with the M's being more like the Deere 5000's. Again, the BX series (not to be confused with the B series) are sub compacts.

I sure didn't mean any offense there. Just trying to help out. I'm one green owner who you'll never hear knocking orange. I think Kubota makes a fine machine.

JohnMiller3 · Jul 16, 2002

...Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Let's see... if we have a TBN get together & cookout... I want J to be the cook... he likes to stir the pot... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

TresCrows · Jul 16, 2002

You guys are to sensitive /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif , I was not trying to rile him. The B series was not mentioned, L series was said to be compacts and something along the lines of everything smaller is a subcompact. It really does not matter anyway what something is called I suppose.
John, there are so many target opportunities, how is the little red mower doing? Is that deck suspended? What is the hydrualic output?
Sure, love to have a cookout, I will bring the gumbo and crawfish, I like it HOT.
Compact has been discussed before and there was a thread--History of the Compact -- or some such. If you see the early Cub tractors and Ford 8N stuff as a compact then it is true that maybe some of what both JD and Kubota market today are really sub-compacts. I do not find the term offensive but others do, in fact JD denies the term exists. Sub compact probably is a better term for tractors weighing less than 2,000 lbs, the demarcation at the lower end being a usefull 3-point, hydrualics, FEL capable, ROPS and other such things or the lack of would then begin the Garden tractor class. So, I guess the BX is the bottom of Kubotas subcompact lineup and the B2910 is the top of Kubotas sub compact lineup and the L3010 begins the compact lineup--I like that better--y'all all got subcompacts!
John, you probably just mad at me cuz I said your new mower has a sheet metal axle /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif . J

JohnMiller3 · Jul 16, 2002

...You guys are to sensitive...
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

You're not too funny... you're 30 funny... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

... I was not trying to rile him...

J... I truly believe you... you know you don't have to try... it's natural for ya... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Now, on to more important things.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Yes... I like my food hot as well... hot peppers on the pizza, on the taco's, with the burgers... sometimes just plain by themselves... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

I do think I could have a field day down in Louisiana testing out multiple hot and spicy foods...Besides, I'm also a shrimp fanatic... and they are plentiful on the coast... right?

...you probably just mad at me cuz I said your new mower has a sheet metal axle...

Nope... it sure takes a lot to ruffle my feathers... ask my kids... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Plus... you spoke the truth... the axle is what it is... but it was so sweet to only spend $621. for a brand new automatic 20 hp twin cylinder riding lawn mower with a 46" suspended deck and two year warranty to boot... /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 16, 2002

"I was not trying to rile him."

Now let's all talk about "him" like "he" isn't even here. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 16, 2002

"but it was so sweet to only spend $621. for a brand new automatic 20 hp twin cylinder riding lawn mower with a 46" suspended deck and two year warranty to boot... "

John, that sounds like one heck of a deal to me! What make/model riding lawn mower do you have? I'm in the process of trading for a 'Huskee' lawn tractor which was purchased new at Tractor Supply Co. last year. I guess this one was something over $3,000 with a snow blower and a couple other attachments that probably isn't a dramatically superior piece of equipment.

Darren · Jul 16, 2002

Just to confuse things the ag industry breaks tractors into three classifications: large, 100 hp and over; medium, from 40 to 100hp; and small, less than 40hp. The article said that Japan is the dominate supplier of small tractors.

John_Mc · Jul 16, 2002

The JD4200 is approximately equal to the Kubota L3410. Not sure about NH.

Personally, I'd have put the JD4300 as being about equal to the Kubota L3410. In the NH line, this is somewhere close to a TC33 (close to a Kubota L3010). On the other hand, I've not had much experience actually using the JD4200/4300 or the Kubota L3010/3410, so I'll yield to those with greater experience on the point.

John Mc

TresCrows · Jul 17, 2002

I was just making a guess at equivlancy--the 3010 weighs 2750 and the 3410 at 2970 lbs and the JD shows 2680 lbs for the 4200 and 2900 lbs for the 4300. The 3010 has 92 cubes and the 3410 has 100 cubes and the 4200 has 73 cubes and the 4300 has 92 and the 4400 has 101 and weighs also 2900 lbs.
I was going more on weight rather than horsepower but if you look at engine displacement that confuses things further. It seems Kubota typically puts a larger engine displacement with more rated horsepower in a given weight class/frame size than does JD in this range of tractor and it seems that way in the B series also.
Being as I have no experience whatsoever with these machines I could not really do anything but hazard a guess and I prefer the weight equivalency. Another way you could see this is that JD prefers not to put any more engine in a given weight/frame size than they believe can be used effectively, anything more they might consider to be a waste or "hype"--more than one way to see these things. J

Soundguy · Jul 17, 2002

I believe massey fergusion does this as well. I stopped by there lot and looked at what honest to god looked like a riding lawn mower.. was sopposedly a 20hp tractor, on a frame twice as small as a nhtc18.. was about the size of a oh ... yanmar 1300, which is a bit smaller than a ford 1210... odd huh... I doub't it had the weight to use the 20hp ( if it indeed had it, and was not the imagination of a deceptive salesperson ).

Soundguy

 was going more on weight rather than horsepower but if you look at engine displacement that confuses things further. It seems Kubota typically puts a larger engine displacement with more rated horsepower in a given weight class/frame size than does JD in this range of tractor and it seems that way in the B series also

John_Mc · Jul 20, 2002

I was going more on weight rather than horsepower but if you look at engine displacement that confuses things further.

I looked at HP, but also at 3pt lift capacity, FEL capacity (where I could find it in comparable specs... some place don't tell you WHERE they measured it), and overall physical size. Looked at weight as well, but since Kubotas tend to weigh less than their nearest competition, I didn't put much "weight" on that measure, just looked to see that they were in the same ballpark.

John Mc

art · Jul 20, 2002

Often to market different machinery they use name changes to differentiate from another manufacturer. A lawn tractor is different from a garden tractor as all the attachments go on and off easier on the garden tractor. The estate tractor is just a different name for the garden tractor. Compacts pick up the list from there and yes I'll say that includes the sub-compact. Utility tractors start off around 40 horsepower and go to roughly 85 horsepower. From there up? Call them what you want but those are the tractors putting food on the table of the world!

TresCrows · Jul 21, 2002

Actually, I do not agree Kubotas weigh less. I always thought they weighed more. I think this goes back to what a person is using to determine a "class" or equivalency. Since it appears to me that Kubota--for whatever reason likes to put more horsepower in a given weight/frame size then I could make the statment that Kubota tractors have more horsepower---for a given horsepower Kubotas are lighter--for a given weight and frame size Kubotas are more powerful (more horses--larger engine)--but it would not be meaningful anymore than saying Kubota tractors are lighter than a JD. From another thread--a fellow said--look at your needs and then buy the tractor size/weight/frame that can accomplish that tasks. Looking at it that way you can compare more straight across--like I said, I prefer weight for comparrison, others can and do differently. Horsepower that is not balanced with tractor weight may not be all that usefull but it looks good on paper for the Kubota man to say to the farmer dude--hey my 2700 lb tractor has more engine displacement and more horsepower, the JD dealer says-- hey tractor dude--my 34 hosepower tractor weighs more than those Kubota 34 horse power lightweights. Is the glass half full or half empty sort of thing. No more rhetoric from on this thread, too do loo, time to go move some dirt. J