Tractor squeals under load after getting warm

   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #81  
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #82  
The schematic shows oil going over the high pressure relief flows from the high pressure side to the low pressure side. Since it is not dumping to tank, the relief is not the cause of your dropping charge pressure. The outside of your cooler looks sad, but that is not an indicator of what it looks inside. You are getting charge pressure so the circuit looks intact, but you don't know how much charge flow. I didn't read everything thoroughly but from what I did read, I didn't see anything about what the charge pump output should be. If the charge pump isn't putting out enough oil to make up for leakage in the high pressure loop under load, that would cause your pressure drop. Have you tried bypassing the cooler altogether to see if there is a restriction? I see the pictures of the piston slippers but couldn't identify if your pictures are of both the pump rotating group and motor rotating group. Are both shown in the picture?

All of the symptoms point through wear in one or more of the charge pump, hydro pump, or hydro motor. A piston pump like your hydro needs to be pressure fed or nasty things will happen like slippers pulling off the swash plate. If it has done much of this you should see things like erosion on the swash plate.

The feed valve/neutral valves on your system also show paths to the sump but I don't read much about them to know if the paths that bleed off leakage past these valves are large enough to caus loss of all your charge flow. It doesn't seem likely they are a problem though because your system works okay when it is cold.

Don't suppose there is someway you can beg, borrow or steal a flow meter to put in the charge circuit to see how much flow the pump is putting out?
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #83  
Woa, they have a fix now?! I haven't read the Kioti posts in a couple weeks. I better take a look. Thanks for the tip!

Luke



NO! There is no Kioti fix, yet. Read above where Kattywumpas talks about pre-charge pump pressure being off and to date it has NOT been resolved- nor is the cause known. The squeal/noise is mediated but that is ONLY symptomatic of the problem. :(
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm
  • Thread Starter
#84  
Thanks for the informative post Harry! It really does seem that the charge flow is loaw since it stays above 100psi until the fluid starts flowing through the hydrostatic motor.

Since I've taken off and checked/cleaned all the external piping and changed the filters, there aren't any blockages there, but the last place I haven't checked for a blockage is coming out of the sump in the rear transmission. I can't see that hole being blocked, but I should probably take the seat/rear fenders off and take a look.

I bought some clear hose that I thought I could put on the suction side (assuming the suction doesn't implode the hose - in which case there probably is a blockage somewhere). I was going to use that to make sure no air was in that suction line going into the charge pump. If it's solid fluid, then i'd borrow a flow meter and check that next.

I did bypass the cooler and it made no difference to the charge pressure.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out,

Luke
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm
  • Thread Starter
#85  
The feed valve/neutral valves on your system also show paths to the sump but I don't read much about them to know if the paths that bleed off leakage past these valves are large enough to caus loss of all your charge flow. It doesn't seem likely they are a problem though because your system works okay when it is cold.

Your point about flow being better when it is cold brings up a point I've somewhat forgotten in trying to find the problem - as the fluid heats up, the problem gets worse.

As the fluid heats up it gets thinner, meaning that it's probably more likely that the issue has to do with the charge pump being worn and allowing oil to slip past it, rather than some blockage in the line or sucking air.

I'm not going to jump to that conclusion, but it probably is bypassing inside the hydrostatic drive somewhere.
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm
  • Thread Starter
#86  
Something I haven't mentioned because I didn't think it was an issue is that when I had the hydrostatic drive out of the tractor, I plugged the output port of the charge pump, and blew air into the suction port (with my mouth), and some air seeped along the shaft into the high pressure orifice of the hydrostatic drive and came out the other ports. I figured it was probably just the way it was and one couldn't expect it to be completely sealed from air since the shaft had to spin, and spinning on a seal or o-ring would just wear it out. However, maybe that's the problem.....

When I took the charge pump apart, I looked for an o-ring and didn't see any o-rings that would go on the shaft, and there aren't any shown on the pump. I'm not actually sure how it seals and keeps the fluid from moving along the shaft.
 

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   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #87  
I am not sure what your gerotor uses for seals with the main drive shaft. I was thinking of using a flow meter to see if charge flow drops off as it gets hot and the oil thins out. If not that the next most likely culprit is wear in the expensive piston pump and motor. Your parts look so good though when compared to something like the rotating group I have shown here. This customer said the system which is a constant speed hydro kept slowing down until it stopped completely. It's hard to believe something can run long enough to be worn this bad. Your system may have worn parts other than worn slippers like this - pistons or barrels for example. Sure would be nice to find something less expensive to repair like a worn charge pump or defective feed/neutral valve - like an o-ring that isn't doing its job anymore due to age.
 

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   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #88  
hlukeh,

I wanted to know if you ever pinpointed this problem? I have a ford 1520 as well with the same exact problem that i've been dealing with for 10 years now and have still never fixed. any advice you could give on this issue would be greatly apprecated!
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #89  
i've seen pistons wear through the swash plates on some models
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm
  • Thread Starter
#90  
hlukeh,

I wanted to know if you ever pinpointed this problem? I have a ford 1520 as well with the same exact problem that i've been dealing with for 10 years now and have still never fixed. any advice you could give on this issue would be greatly apprecated!

Hi Dan,

I still have not fixed the problem, but maybe I'll look at it again this summer. I have a flow meter I'm planning on putting after the charge pump. I'm not sure what it would tell me though, but maybe something will be obvious. However, even if it was obvious that the charge pump was the problem, I'm not sure how it could be fixed as it looks very good and there are no seals in it.

Luke
 

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