Tractor Tranny Tracking: From HST to GST to ...

SageBrush · Apr 26, 2004

GST and plain ole syncro will still be around in the future for the same reason you can still get a 6 speed stick in a truck. Gear types are prefered around here for farming and HST has been out for many moons. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I like the GST trans for plowing and planting, my little L4330 GST pulls my planter perfect. It works for me and I've used them all. Thankfully we have choices, we could be stuck with the 250 AS Belarus, my first tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowboydoc · Apr 26, 2004

just what would be the operational difference between running your 8000 or 6000 series tractor with a comparatively powered hydrostatically controlled machine, were one to exist?

First of all there is absolutely no reason for a hydro in the 8000 series. They already have IVT, Infinitely variable transmission. But on this tractor it's imperative to be able to match the ground speed to the implement with planting, plowing, discing, chisel plow, etc. Once you find the right gear range then you don't have to find it everytime. With one touch of the button I set the tractor basically on cruise control. I don't press any hydro pedals or anything. A hydro just isn't necessary in these bigger tractors. There's no need to put one in a tractor this size. For one it would raise the cost by I'm guessing at least $15-20k. And secondly you don't need it. It's not just a power loss issue, cooling, etc.

It's the same thing with an automatic on a pickup. As good as the automatics are that they are coming out with they still do not compare nor do the work as efficiently as a manual transmission. It's the same with big trucks. Yes they have them but the more gears you have in a transmission the more complicated it gets.

As far as finesse goes if we're talking about something you do for a living then I can or any other farmer or rancher can finesse a tractor with gears just the same as anyone with a hydro. Finesse is really a non-issue to anyone that has operated a machine for any length of time. If you're talking about someone who has never operated a tractor before you may have somewhat of an argument.

In your world I'm sure a hydro makes all the sense in the world to you and you couldn't see how it could be any different. But for a row crop tractor, not a chore tractor, there is absolutely no need for a hydro and there would be absolutely no benefit to having one.

PineRidge · Apr 26, 2004

I came of of a gear tyranny tractor and stepped up to a HST. Quite frankly I'm very pleased that I did and I'm not looking back. My chores are much easier now and the HST pedals are second nature.

When doing loader work I now find myself humming, "Hi hoe the clutch is dead." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TNCHRIS · Apr 26, 2004

can't believe some hasn't pointed this out yet. why were you clutching to go to reverse? with a gst all you do is pull the shuttle lever back the hydrolic clutch pack does the clutching. in thoery tre olny time you need to push the clutch is to start the engine. it can be put to neutral to stop and just pulled into gear to go. for plowing large areas at a time it would serve a great purpose. however i will never go back from a HST, for me it's the only way to go. i have owned two gear drive masseys and the hst is far better, you may loose 5% pto horse power but you gain useable horsepower. it seams that with a geardrive you never have quite the right gear, you either move to slow or gear up and thottle back lossing pto horsepower and speed with the hst pto power and speed remain constant regardless of speed.i really feel that with pto operations a hst will outdo a geardrive in real world side by side field use. iv'ed owned and used both. however the gear will outpull the hst plowing but not by much. so i guess if your plowing buy a gear if mowing buy a hydro.

just my 2 cents.

OkeeDon · Apr 26, 2004

I've said this before, but I guess it bears repeating. Whenever the subject of hydro vs. gears comes up, the gear folks always sing the praises of shuttle shift. All that proves is they don't like to use the clutch any more than the hydro folks. Not all compacts are available with a shuttle shift. In the case of my TC18, it was either choose the hydro, or choose the same technology that was on the 8N I looked at. As correctly pointed out in the first post, it requires both feet to brake, and one foot and one hand to shift, and must be done frequently when doing loader work, and one slip in the rhythm and it stalls, or lurches, or possibly breaks.

I have a stick shift in my Dakota, my wife has it in her Focus ZZX3, and only our "Sunday go to meetin'" Windstar has an automatic, and that's only because I had no choice -- I once had a Dodge Caravan with a 5 speed. So, I'm certainly not against straight gears. I prefer to decide for myself when the dabburn thing is going to shift, and I'm willing to occasionally do a little clutch work to make that happen.

But, HST is not an automatic. It's not doing any thinking for us. In the case of HST, we actually have more control over the behavior, as opposed to the "it's either connected or not" status of the gear, unless you like slipping a clutch.

If you have a need for the direct connection, like plowing, then the gear makes sense. But, who plows with a compact?

Tractors4u · Apr 26, 2004

( But, who plows with a compact? )

Actually I recently plowed about 5 acres, disced it, and then planted corn. I put my FEL back on and moved a bunch of dirt.

PineRidge · Apr 26, 2004

If you have a need for the direct connection, like plowing, then the gear makes sense. But, who plows with a compact?


Don you were batting 100% until you made that last statement. I also own a Dearborn 2 bottom plow although I must admit that I do use my tiller more that I do my plow. On new ground however I hitch up the plow.

I will agree that the vast majority of folks that own a cut don't use them for full time plowing purposes however. Most are hobby farmers, that is they grow food because they want to, not because they need to.

OkeeDon · Apr 26, 2004

Well, I can twist my words so I'm still batting 100% -- all I did was ask "who", and now there are two people who responded. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

But, you're right. That wasn't my intention. My intention was to indicate that few people plow with a compact. I guess we'll have to see how many exceptions there are to my "rule" to see where my percentage ends up... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Tractors4u · Apr 26, 2004

Sorry Don, I couldn't resist. I will have to shoot some pictures on my cornfield when it gets tall enough. I must admit though, I didn't buy my tractor with intentions of row cropping with it. It was just one of those whims that I came up with. I spent as much or more time setting up the planter than I did actually planting. I took 2 full size CaseIH 800 planter heads from a 12 row planter and built a 2 row tool bar for them.

Rowski · Apr 27, 2004

As somelse has mentioned

Why bother using the clutch? A GST is ment to be shifted without the clutch!

I have worked my NH 2120 which is a straight gear transmsion for 12+ hours pushing back snow. So I can feel for your left leg.

I used a L4330HST for 70 hours this winter blowing snow. While I really liked the hydro for directional changes and varing speeds. The hydro used up a lot of power and the fuel consumption was awful. While hydros seem to loose the typical 5% hp, while under load they loose a lot more. What I mean is if you are using a pto device and it is requiring most of your hp and the resistance for the hydro increases (going up a steep hill) you will need more power but there not much there due to the PTO using it up. So the options are to slow down youe speed or decrease the resistance on the PTO. The machine then becomes less effeicient.

My buddy is letting me keep his L4330HST for a few more weeks. I have had a chance to use it for some FEL work. It is very nice and make loader work more enjoyable than a straight gear tranny. My next tractor, after the TN will be a upper 20's HP tractor with hydro.

I'm willing to bet that you get an experienced operator with a power shuttle and an operator with a hydro, work them side by side you would not see much difference other than the fuel bill of the hydro being more.