Tractor Tranny Tracking: From HST to GST to ...

JerryG · Apr 27, 2004

I'm willing to bet that you get an experienced operator with a power shuttle and an operator with a hydro, work them side by side you would not see much difference other than the fuel bill of the hydro being more.

I agree. I know that I can go for long stretches at a time with out using the clutch with my PowerShuttle. The turbo really helps to keep me from shifting as often also. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TBone · Apr 27, 2004

"I've said this before, but I guess it bears repeating. Whenever the subject of hydro vs. gears comes up, the gear folks always sing the praises of shuttle shift. All that proves is they don't like to use the clutch any more than the hydro folks. " 

Don, my shuttle shift (as others I have seen) requires the use of the clutch, rather than eliminates it. As someone else said the shuttle just simplifies the forward/reverse process by allowing you to change directions with one smooth movement (and without stopping the tractor).

I don't think anyone's mind will be changed on their transmission preference but I do think we will see more and more hst tractors and they will slowly become the norm just like automatic transmissions have in automobiles.

However, some of us old diehards will probably still be chugging along on gear tractors till we get too old to climb up on 'em. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I rented a small Kubota with HST several years ago and used it for two days clearing a building lot and moving some dirt around. After the normal learning curve I actually got pretty proficient with it but when I returned it to its owner I swore I would never own one of those screaming things /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif and I never have (or will).

To each his own. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

TBone

Tractors4u · Apr 27, 2004

( All that proves is they don't like to use the clutch any more than the hydro folks. )

Like someone else mention, it just makes forward to reverse quicker. I still use my clutch, sometimes I have to remind myself that I don't have to use it. The shuttle lever allows me to shift blindly so to speak. To go forward to reverse I don't have to look at the shifter to find reverse or the right gear. I just flick that lever on the steering column and GO.

catsco · Apr 27, 2004

Interesting reading regarding HST vs. gear.

My brother pointed out to me (in his 'different' way of looking at things) that my road vehicles all have manual transmissions and my tractor is HST. He thinks I am bit daft.

HOWEVER, having done quite a bit of work over the years on transfer cases, transmissions, and differentials, one advantage of HST is the simplicity (usually).

Somehow, it's fun to rebuild a Muncie manaul gearbox in a vintage Chevelle, but drudgery to fix a differential on a Ford 8N, what with the preloads, etc. on the pinion and all the careful work required.

On the HST (depending upon brand) it's more fun to swap hydro pumps and/or gear motors and keep on having fun while the offending parts sit on the workbench waiting for placement in the 'to do' list.

For me, at least, it's the difference between going for a Sunday drive in the mountains as opposed to driving to work.

Same operation, just no inclination to turn wrenches to be able to do the second one as opposed to tinkering being an integral part of the first.

Mark H.

Egon · Apr 27, 2004

The great debate!! My very small tractor has HST which is perferable to me for the work I do.

If I was sitting 15 feet plus up in the air and looking at 8 driving tires in front of sixty feet of implements the gear version would be my choice.

If I was pulling equipment that had to dispense seeds or chemicals at a controlled rate the gear tractor would again be my choice.

If I was doing 12 hour day loader work the HST would be my choice regardless of size.

If I was only doing occasional loader work HST for the small tractor, gears for the large one.

It's all a situational situation.

Egon

CTyler · Apr 27, 2004

( What I mean is if you are using a pto device and it is requiring most of your hp and the resistance for the hydro increases (going up a steep hill) you will need more power but there not much there due to the PTO using it up. So the options are to slow down youe speed or decrease the resistance on the PTO. The machine then becomes less effeicient. )

Then you undersized the machine to begin with. If you know the requirements then buy the hp to cover it and don't blame the HST. It doens't matter what you have gear, hydro, etc.. if there isn't enough hp it will be slower and/or less efficient.

My L3130 is a hydro with 25 PTO hp. If it needed 25 PTO hp to run a mower and bogs and crawls up a hill then its my own fault for not getting more hp or a smaller mower.

DAP · Apr 27, 2004

Dr. Rich ...

( First of all there is absolutely no reason for a hydro in the 8000 series. They already have IVT, Infinitely variable transmission. But on this tractor it's imperative to be able to match the ground speed to the implement with planting, plowing, discing, chisel plow, etc. Once you find the right gear range then you don't have to find it everytime. With one touch of the button I set the tractor basically on cruise control. I don't press any hydro pedals or anything. A hydro just isn't necessary in these bigger tractors. There's no need to put one in a tractor this size.))

Functionally, that IVT has much more in common with an actual hydrostatically controlled transmission than a Shuttle or a GST tranny, sounds to me, and you like (nay, need) em for the same reasons HST people like HST.

( As far as finesse goes if we're talking about something you do for a living then I can or any other farmer or rancher can finesse a tractor with gears just the same as anyone with a hydro. Finesse is really a non-issue to anyone that has operated a machine for any length of time. If you're talking about someone who has never operated a tractor before you may have somewhat of an argument. )

Aw mulebread ... controlling the machine to as exacting amount as possible is an issue for ANYONE who uses it for ANYTHING. The HST type trannies (your IVT included) will decrease the learning curve for folks with less experience, making them more productive, sooner and safer.

( In your world I'm sure a hydro makes all the sense in the world to you and you couldn't see how it could be any different. But for a row crop tractor, not a chore tractor, there is absolutely no need for a hydro and there would be absolutely no benefit to having one. )

Pay attention Rich. Those were my words in the first post. And take a tip, generally, it's bad form and not very neighborly to make statements like ( ... and you couldn't see how it could be any different. )

Some folks (certainly not me) might thing you meant that like it came out. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slowrev · Apr 27, 2004

HST machines are very nice till they break, then a 2.50 O ring can cost 1,200 to install ! If you just keep them for several years and trade them in, no problem, if you buy them to keep forever than it will be a costly repair down the road.

Towing a Hydro tractor can also be a problem. Pull starting ?? A gear transmission does not quit pulling if the fluid gets a bit low or suck air and quit on some steep slopes.

There is considerable debate on doing draft work with a Hydro transmission as well.

Well that is all of the potential problems I can think of with Hydro's.

Tractors4u · Apr 27, 2004

( Some folks (certainly not me) might thing you meant that like it came out. )

I have to wonder if you meant these these things to sound the way they do?

( I will say this: GST (as opposed to Hydro or Variable Speed Trannies) are dated technology and a neanderthal-like hold-overs from the technology of yesteryear.
)

( In this day an age however, GST remains as a relic to the past as far as engineering goes )

This thread sounds like it was meant to do nothing more than stir the pot. Most of the HST vs Gear discussions innocently spin off from another discussion where as this one was started intenionally. We might as well go back to talking about bringing the draft back.

ljh2 · Apr 27, 2004

DAP,
Sounds to me that you are describing a standard Gear Shift as opposed to Kubota's Glide-Shift (GST) transmission. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif The Glide Shift has a Hydraulic Shuttle that does not require the use of the clutch peddle for speed or direction changes. I first had the opportunity to use a GlideShift transmission on a friend's tractor a few years ago and thought it was a LOT easier than the old Gear jobs that I grew up with for loader work. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

My M6800 has standard clutch/gear for speed/range selection, but also has a Hydraulic Shuttle. It does not require clutching to change directions. I sometimes still catch myself clutching when I don't need to though. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I agree that using the loader on a standard Gear Shift tractor takes a toll on your left leg real fast, but the Hydraulic Shuttle makes loader operation pretty smooth... maybe not as smooth as Hydrostatic, but pretty nice. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif