Tractor Tranny Tracking: From HST to GST to ...

OkeeDon · Apr 27, 2004

my shuttle shift (as others I have seen) requires the use of the clutch, rather than eliminates it. 

I guess that just shows my ignorance. First, I assumed that GST meant "Gear Shift Transmission" as opposed to "Hydraulic Shift Transmission." I confess I have no technical knowledge of the differences, other than one requires a clutch, and one doesn't (for most purposes). I don't even know if those are the correct expansions of the acronyms.

Second, I assumed that all, or most, shuttle shift transmissions worked the way as the big Cat 416 that I used last year. I don't know the technical name for what it's called, but once I had it moving, I didn't have to use a clutch -- I could shift from forward to reverse, shift to higher or lower gears, etc., just by pushing levers. Now that I think about it, it probably had some sort of electronic clutch that was activated by the levers. I know that it had a button on the loader joystick that would throw the clutch momentarily, making it easier to dump the load. It was as much fun to drive as my hydro. In my ignorance, I assumed all shuttle shifts worked that way.

But, my bottom line remains the same. For the purposes that most of use our compact tractors, I believe hydro is more controllable than basic gear shifting. And, in the case of my little tractor, I didn't have the option of shuttle shift, IVT, Glide Shift, electronic clutches or anything but a straight, old-fashioned gear shift, and I'm glad I don't have it.

_RaT_ · Apr 27, 2004

"HST machines are very nice till they break, then a 2.50 O ring can cost 1,200 to install ! If you just keep them for several years and trade them in, no problem, if you buy them to keep forever than it will be a costly repair down the road.

Towing a Hydro tractor can also be a problem. Pull starting ?? A gear transmission does not quit pulling if the fluid gets a bit low or suck air and quit on some steep slopes.

There is considerable debate on doing draft work with a Hydro transmission as well.

Well that is all of the potential problems I can think of with Hydro's."

Why do I have the feeling this post is purely subjective rather then objective. My experience as well as those of many others with HST will probably not allow this post to hold up to scrutiny.

Not being able to pull start a tractor, is that a big deal? Do you have issues where you do this routinely? I have yet to get my wife out to have her drag my gear International around to start it, I use jumper cables. If the starter went bad which since 1974 has never happened, I would simply replace it since in all likelyhood, you would do it anyway. My L3830 with HST could not have a more accesable starter. I could tow it, but where? Again, a 2 person job. Any distance and I'd put it on a trailer. Sucking air? wow, at the angles I have been on, my International would loose diesel before my Kubota would suck air. At that angle, sucking air might be a good thing because any more angle and I'd rollover or do a flip, what a great safety device. Splitting any tractor requires a great deal of labor be it gear, shuttle or HST. I doubt you have any data to support failure rates on HST. My 3 local dealers do and they would certainly bring what experience if any you have into question. HST or shuttle, both work exceptionally well. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Rat...

CTyler · Apr 28, 2004

If my L3130 hydro won't start pull start when needed then I'm going to chuck in the river right after I jump start it.

DAP · Apr 28, 2004

( Nothing I can do to stop a thread from going where it's gonna go so ....
)

Thanks to all for your comments, founded, unfounded, intelligent or ..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Knowing (and not really caring) where this thread would go, I'll merely reiterate its original intent.

That being to relate my 1st hand experience with the GST doing hours of loader work. I could have used a NH/Ford HST for those hours but purposely chose the GST machine to acquire the actual experience. I didn't kill me. (I did sustain some very minor injury to my r. hand because of a stubborn throttle which would only move with a sharp wrap with the palm or a 2 handed clench. If I owned this machine, the linkage would be first on the list.) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All the BS aside (the auto truck tranny was a good one! People seem to forget that you can control what gear you'd like whether you have a clutch or not - HOW it shifts is the center of the debate, not that it DOES), I know one can save some money in today's tractor market by side-stepping the HST option in almost all cases - or you can apply those savings and opt up for a lil larger machine.

As far as GST operations, I know I needn't clutch to change speeds or directions, but it is simply not that simple. Clutch work is mandatory for GST and loader chores. Gradual stops and starts require the clutch. In the short time I used this unit (11 hrs) I learned in the first 5 minutes to approach a load full in low gear slowly, and transport the load in a higher gear and finally dump in a lower gear due to the dump location. For my tasks, even 1st gear was not slow enough in practice - the clutch was needed for transition speeds. Period.

Additionally, I had a 7ft. landscape rake on the hitch and had to place that implement in some exacting positions (fence lines, slopes, etc.). Doesn't matter what gear your in for this, just better be going in increments of inches or the fence will buy it.

Next question: when are the non-blue makers gonna standardize those swivelling seats. My neck is sore! I know a lot has been posted here over the years regarding the 'backwardness' designs of tractors - how everything needs to be out front. Some gizmos will always need to be PUSHED and others will always work bet PULLED is my take. I think it will be a long wait for an afordable bi-directional compact tractor - as in that big NH machine folks are talking about - a tractor that has no front nor back ... I'm likin that idea more. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

DAP · Apr 28, 2004

I too made this point in the original post. Unfortunately, many, not all, but many folks who sell this type of equipment are not knowledgeable enough to pass this information along to prospective buyers at the point of sale disucssions.

art · Apr 28, 2004

As a sales person I always talk of pro's and cons of all three brand compacts we sell. To add a little more fun with this thread for the die hard BIG farmers here all major brands either have introduced or will be introducing new transmissions that are a called IVT,CVT or some other designation but still a hydro varient. The difference from the old IH's that were built in the sixties and seventies is they have more ranges then the old IH design to better utilize the engines power. The flexibility of speed do to conditions or crops is the advantage, the same as the mowing, tilling or loader work. Like what you want, it's tough to beat progress unless you think it's the other way!

_RaT_ · Apr 28, 2004

Oh Art, your going to make some folks mad talking like that! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rowski · Apr 28, 2004

( For my tasks, even 1st gear was not slow enough in practice - the clutch was needed for transition speeds. Period.
)

Have you ever seen someone very good at using a power shuttle? Or for that matter had proper instruction on how to use one? Seem like you haven't. Last I new there was netrual postion on the shuttle lever. Ever think of putting the shuttle in netural?

JerryG · Apr 28, 2004

the clutch was needed for transition speeds. Period. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

_RaT_ · Apr 28, 2004

Derek, that neutral position to me is what makes a shuttle work so well. When backing up, I generally coast, in neutral, come almost to a stop and put the shuttle in forward. The reverse is true as well. Mark