Trade In, Rebuild

[meledward23]

I have an Old Duetz D3006. The Tractor is from the 70's I think. I have the serial number around here somewhere I was going to try and see if I can find more specific information on it.

But anyway, it is blowing oil out hte exhaust, sloping it and low RPMs and burning it at high RPMS. Tractor has never sounded better. Runs great as long as it runs. Dies out often enough and that usually necesitates changin the fuel filter then all is well again.

I am thinking about Trading it in. Or rebuilding the engine to get ride of the oil burning. Well, OkayI cant rebuild the engine. I can rebuild a computer but not an engine. My Brother is a GMC mechanic and has been for 25 years. If it can be rebuilt he could probably do it, if it is anything like doing a car. Problem with him is he swears he wont work on a disiel. Doesnt Matter if it is a Tractor or GMS Pickup. He gets stubborn in his old age.

So if I ordered a rebuild kit for $ 468.00 and highered someone to do the work (I know just the man) What do you think in hours it owuld take to rebuild with a skilled mechanic?

Also, is it worth it, or should I trade it in???

All comments are appreciated...

 

[BobG_in_VA]

First, I don't think you'd get much on a trade-in (I'm not sure, but just guessin' here), as they would have to do a major overhaul as well prior to trying to sell it again. Couple of questions come to mind: 1) Do you "like" the tractor when it runs right? 2) Other than the engine, does everything work, and has it worked reliably over its lifetime? 3)How much would you spend toward a "new" tractor? These are rather obvious questions, but if you got an otherwise good tractor that doesn't cost much to run (when its running right), and it does everything you want it to, combined with your statement that you knew just the guy that could do a good rebuild, I'd seriously consider an overhaul. Having said that, when you get it down, I'd do some other "maintenance" as well such as clutch, bushings, water pump, radiator cleanout and test, hydraulics check, etc. If you have to spend $2K or more you still have a good tractor that will run another 20 or more years with some care. Where ya gonna get a new tractor for that??? BobG in VA

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Several "up-sides" and a few "down-sides".

And then you need to answer the question "Do you like this tractor"?

I've rebuilt a few diesels in my day. They're different than gas engines, but generally, if you can learn to do one, you can learn to do the other. I'd make certain you can get your hands on the proper shop manuals before removing the first bolt though.

Downsides to overhaul? Some diesels require a number of special tools to remove and re-install key parts. I'm sure Duetz is no different. In some cases, by the time a deisel is worn enough to need overhauling, the rest of the tractor needs it too. Duetz air-cooled diesels have a long life expectancy. I'd venture to guess the rest of the tractor has a good bit of wear and tear on it.

Rebuild kits, while usually "complete", don't always have every part you'll need. Also, figure the cost of PROBABLY rebuilding the injector pump while you're this far into it.

I'd never consider splitting a tractor without installing a new clutch (and pressure plate?)

As is the case, a "first-time" rebuild of a diesel MIGHT not turn out the way you expect. Unless you're very confident, I'd consider having a shop rebuild it, or the "trade off" option.

Upside? You can save a LOT of money over buying another tractor, or having someone else rebuild it. Duetz are/were good tractors. Some well spent money, and you'll be good for another 25 or 30 years of hard use.

Decision time!

 

[Egon]

Couple of questions:

Will you rebore cylinders or replace sleeves?
New pistons and rods?
Rod pins?
Does the crank need turning?
Will the valves and seats be reground?
Cam condition?
Valve springs and seals?
Timing Chain?
Oil pump?
Water pump?
Injectors and pump?

Some of these items are best done in a shop equiped with all the proper tools.

If the engine is rebuilt will the rest of the tractor last out the engine?

Think I would price out a shop rebuild and then make a decision.

Egon

 

[Farmwithjunk]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Couple of questions:

Will you rebore cylinders or replace sleeves?
New pistons and rods?
Rod pins?
Does the crank need turning?
Will the valves and seats be reground?
Cam condition?
Valve springs and seals?
Timing Chain?
Oil pump?
Water pump?
Injectors and pump?

Some of these items are best done in a shop equiped with all the proper tools.

If the engine is rebuilt will the rest of the tractor last out the engine?

Think I would price out a shop rebuild and then make a decision.

Egon )</font>

I'd do new sleeves.

DEFINATELY new pistons/rings.

Con. rods can be reconditioned.

Wrist pins will come with new pistons.

Valves probably need grinding/maybe new valves. Grinding valves INCREASES size of combustion chamber (valves "seated" deeper), lowering compression SLIGHTLY, reducing power output somewhat (from stock/new) (will show INCREASED power from worn engine needing rebuild)

Valve springs MIGHT be OK. Depends on total hours and budget.

Valve seals. DEFINATELY REPLACE.

Timing Chain. definately replace

Oil pump. DEFINATELY replace

Replace injectors

Service/overhaul injector pump.

At least that's what I'd be doing!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Ooooops! Forgot a couple items! I'd look at turning the crank IF NEEDED. Undersized bearings fitted to crank as needed if turned.

Cam shaft/lifters replaced IF NEEDED. The last 2 diesels I've rebuilt showed NO wear on camshaft after many thousands of hours.

Typically, a good "re-builder" will re-use parts that don't show ANY wear, but replace or machine those that do. Parts that have proven themselves in use are every bit as good, and in some ways BETTER than those coming off a shelf as new.

 

[meledward23]

I appreciate everyone's posts. These are exactly the points, comments I was looking for. Much to think about.

This old Deutz, one couldnt ask for a better tractor. I mean 30+ years abuse and still running. Blows oil as fast as you can pour it and still has plenty of power. Steers great, very little to break, very little to fix. Just needs some serious attention / TLC and would be good to go... But I always hesitate to repair these things, I always feel like it is a gamble. And I hate betting. But the payout is so great....

 

[JoeR]

If I were in your situation, I would be asking myself if I could do the task, and do I have the time. What is your time worth? Do you enjoy rebuilding diesel engines? If so, then its not about your personal time. If I had to pay someone to rebuild it, then I would probably realize the cost to fix the engine is too high. Overall, you also have to know that you had lots of good years with that tractor, and that it probably has paid for itself 20 times.

You could easily spend thousands of dollars in parts and labor to restore it, but would this be money spent wisely? How many more years will you get out of it? Does it require lots of filter changes?

I am always looking at machinery from a cost-benefit ratio.

Good luck!

Joe

 

[Bob_Young]

It IS a gamble, mel, because there's lots that can go wrong. What if the rebuild goes sour? Maybe your mechanic overlooks something or misunderstands the rebuild manual. Maybe one of the new parts wasn't made right. It runs OK for a while and then something lets go, severely damages the engine block and you've got a useless pile of iron. You can't really go back on your mechanic for the full cost of an expensive engine.

I'd be looking for a Deutz shop to do the rebuild. Lacking that, start looking around for an engine source....maybe another damaged Deutz that can be cannibalized or an outfit that supplies short blocks.

Good Luck.
Bob

 

[meledward23]

Yep, I appreciate the responses.

I have decided, 1) trade in on my new TC30 (for my Farm hand, no one drives my 55). 2) park it in the shed till I have time and money to have it redone properly.

It is a cute ol tractor. Be a good one to have as a spare to pull the mowers and such.

What I do depends on how much 1) is and what my wife thinks about 2) (she will probably favorite depending on #1)....

 

[BigDogues]

I'd give the rebuild a shot, no question. It would be a great winter project. Take you sweet time and have fun. You've got another machine for chores, right? So this one isn't in urgent need. Then pull it into the barn and take your time, enjoy it. Take things that are beyond you to a good machine shop. You'll have something you can be proud of come spring.
A quick google turned up this web page. For the money it's definitely worth the gamble.
-Phil

 

[boomer4snow]

Have you given a thought to just selling the tractor as is? Lots of people enjoy fixing up old tractors, and will pay prob better than a dealer would for trade in. Then put that money down on a new one with all the great financing they have, you would have your new tractor at least a year before you got close to how much $ it "may" take to repair your old one.

 

[ZJ_HR]

Don't do overhaul at home on Deutz air cooled engine if you didn't this before. It has some tricks, and if you don't follow them, you can make it worse. One of them is number of distance washers between sleeve and engine block on EACH cylinder. These are for proper compression ratio setings.
Second is type of gaskets (O-rings) on pipes for leading valve rods. If you mix it, it will leak oil on sleeves, an engine will collect dust and have tendention to overheating.
These are some of trick that I heard of, but don't know details.
Find a mechanic who knows Deutz engines well, and when he do proper overhaul engine will last for next 30years.
If my memory is good, D3006 has 2cylinder engine?

 

[normde2001]

Is it actually using oil, or could that be unburned diesel and carbon, (diesel slobber), you see coming out the exhaust? 70's is not that old for a diesel. Why do you keep having to replace the fuel filter?

 

[meledward23]

The Mechanic used the Term Slobber.

Why do I keep replacing the fuel Filter. Becuase this thing quits running out of the blue. Replace the Fuel filter and it works. That simple. Why I have no clue.

As Far as a rebuild is concerned, I myself wouldnt do it. I would pay someone as I have the money.

No, selling it as is really hasn't occured to me. PArtially becuase I wouldnt consider buying it, so I have a hard time realizing someone else will pay money for it. That's why I dont sell for a living (Whewwww....)...

 

[JeffRey30747]

If you are continuously changing fuel filters, you either have clean fuel going into a dirty tank or dirty fuel going into a tank that is now dirty. Drain the tank and remove everything up to the point of the filter and clean. Allow to air dry and reassemble. Go ahead and change the fuel filter again to have a good baseline for how it is now performing. Make sure your new fuel is clean before refilling tank. Bleed the air from the fuel system and give it a try.
Do you have any backpressure escaping from the crankcase vent? This is usually a telltale sign of worn rings. My Yanmar 186D does this but still pulls well so I am postponing the overhaul until I think it is more necessary.
Jeff

 

[meledward23]

What is a Crankcase Vent?

 

[Egon]

Crancase vent.

web page

Egon

 

[meledward23]

Yeah that didnt help much Egon. I read through there and may understand what is or is not supposed to happen with the vent. But what is it and where do I find it?

I did a google for the crankcase vent, but I came up with lots of filters and various gadgets, but no clear understanding of what I would be looking for.

 

[JeffRey30747]

meledward23,
Look on your valve cover for a fitting that connects to a hose. This hose should go down the side of the engine. The link Egon has provided shows a filter element that replaces the wire mesh commonly used in the area of the fitting just inside the valve cover. The vent allows any excessive pressure to escape to the atmosphere. If you have excessive ring wear, oil will most likely come out this vent in drops or you might even see some smoke under load conditions.
I wish I could get some of that Fleetguard filter media for my 186D. It should reduce my oil consumption due to blowby.
Jeff