Trade Offs and Priorites: Maddening
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MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( He has dirt work to do and there's no substitute for weight. He would have to add a whole tractor's worth to the lighter one just to even the score! )</font>
Loader work does not require the amounts of weight that plowing does. Case in point - A Kubota B21 weights in at under 3000 lbs, yet it will dig circles around machines twice its size and weight. Contractors and rental yards around the country rely on these tractors day in and day out to make money with them, yet they prefer the tractor be light so its easier to trailer. Sure having added mass is going to give you more push when you go flying into a pile, but a well designed tractor can overcome that.
Loader work does not require the amounts of weight that plowing does. Case in point - A Kubota B21 weights in at under 3000 lbs, yet it will dig circles around machines twice its size and weight. Contractors and rental yards around the country rely on these tractors day in and day out to make money with them, yet they prefer the tractor be light so its easier to trailer. Sure having added mass is going to give you more push when you go flying into a pile, but a well designed tractor can overcome that.
OP
DAP
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ENOUGH! LOL /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Let's clear up some of this mechanical masturbation.
This thread has wander far and introduced more than a couple of 'mis-statements'.
I AM THE ORIGINAL POSTER. I will NOT be mowing grass with this machine - sorry Robert.
The CK30's most closely related Kubota cousin is NOT the B2910, rather the L3130 (or the late L3010). Cross the specs and you will not disagree.
That leaves the CK25, as I alluded to in another thread, in a unique position between the greens, blues and other oranges. So unique, it is has no close comparison.
Lastly, as an FYI, the new CK25 and CK30 have 2 speed PTOs (540 and 1000) - Presumably to deal with NEW implements slated for the market in the future - MOST LIKELY farm like ground engaging implements. Their already are plenty of 2 speed PTO tractors out there but they are NOT CUTS nor can their requisite implements be used on a CUT.
In MY SPECIFIC instance, all that extra weight could be troublesome. Repeat could be.
The original discussion about weight was made because of the details. I was taken aback at the weight ratios of the Kioti machines and initially fell into the trap of comparing the CK30 with the 30hp B series from Kubota. They only thing they really have in common are the gross engine HP, general size and silloutte and the alarming closeness of the orange paint (the Kioti mix has a lil more yellow in it, a lil brighter).
AT THE END OF THE DAY, it would appear that the Kioti designers/engineers acted with autonomy when putting the CK30 on paper.
(Remember, the CK25 was clearly a marketing afterthought).
To Robert Skurka's defense, as inadvertent as I might be, he has stated previously his admiration for the Kioti machines and points out his own disspointment with characteristics of the big three, of which he owns or two of each.
To KiotiJohn's defense, he's so excited about his Kioti than he has difficulty containing his youthful enthusiams to a point of ... well he seems to forget he paid a large corporation a lot of money for the right to sell their product to others.
I on the other hand, do my very damndest to refrain from wearing, driving or otherwise advertising ANYTHING that has a moniker, logo, trademark etc. unless I'm paid for it. In this day and age, not an easy feat.
Now, I'm going to have some teewurst and crackers and read some other threads.
Did I mention that the Kioti's were VERY heavy machines?
Let's clear up some of this mechanical masturbation.
This thread has wander far and introduced more than a couple of 'mis-statements'.
I AM THE ORIGINAL POSTER. I will NOT be mowing grass with this machine - sorry Robert.
The CK30's most closely related Kubota cousin is NOT the B2910, rather the L3130 (or the late L3010). Cross the specs and you will not disagree.
That leaves the CK25, as I alluded to in another thread, in a unique position between the greens, blues and other oranges. So unique, it is has no close comparison.
Lastly, as an FYI, the new CK25 and CK30 have 2 speed PTOs (540 and 1000) - Presumably to deal with NEW implements slated for the market in the future - MOST LIKELY farm like ground engaging implements. Their already are plenty of 2 speed PTO tractors out there but they are NOT CUTS nor can their requisite implements be used on a CUT.
In MY SPECIFIC instance, all that extra weight could be troublesome. Repeat could be.
The original discussion about weight was made because of the details. I was taken aback at the weight ratios of the Kioti machines and initially fell into the trap of comparing the CK30 with the 30hp B series from Kubota. They only thing they really have in common are the gross engine HP, general size and silloutte and the alarming closeness of the orange paint (the Kioti mix has a lil more yellow in it, a lil brighter).
AT THE END OF THE DAY, it would appear that the Kioti designers/engineers acted with autonomy when putting the CK30 on paper.
(Remember, the CK25 was clearly a marketing afterthought).
To Robert Skurka's defense, as inadvertent as I might be, he has stated previously his admiration for the Kioti machines and points out his own disspointment with characteristics of the big three, of which he owns or two of each.
To KiotiJohn's defense, he's so excited about his Kioti than he has difficulty containing his youthful enthusiams to a point of ... well he seems to forget he paid a large corporation a lot of money for the right to sell their product to others.
I on the other hand, do my very damndest to refrain from wearing, driving or otherwise advertising ANYTHING that has a moniker, logo, trademark etc. unless I'm paid for it. In this day and age, not an easy feat.
Now, I'm going to have some teewurst and crackers and read some other threads.
Did I mention that the Kioti's were VERY heavy machines?
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
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DAP . . . you said in your original post that you had lawn & pasture. My presumtion may have been bad, but I presumed you were implying mowing that. As for the CK30 versus B2910 arguement, you will find that I have argued in other threads that the B2910/402 loader is VASTLY INFERIOR to the CK30/130 loader and the CK30 is closer to, but not equal to the L3130/723 loader.
Now as for all the rest of this stuff, I hear that Neil Messick is coming out with a HOVERCRAFT-TRACTOR that allows only the implement to contact the ground, weighs 80,000 pounds, and floats above the lawn. It has more weight than a container load of Kioti tractors but doesn't leave ruts.
Now as for all the rest of this stuff, I hear that Neil Messick is coming out with a HOVERCRAFT-TRACTOR that allows only the implement to contact the ground, weighs 80,000 pounds, and floats above the lawn. It has more weight than a container load of Kioti tractors but doesn't leave ruts.
MMM
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thanks John)</font>
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( To KiotiJohn's defense, he's so excited about his Kioti than he has difficulty containing his youthful enthusiams to a point of ... well he seems to forget he paid a large corporation a lot of money for the right to sell their product to others.
)</font>
I'll thank you not to come to my defense if that's what you think is the reason that I present the Kioti tractors as great alternatives to paying high prices for "name brand" tractors.
That is the only reason that I am so enthusiastic, and if you've read my posts for any time you will see that I support others decisions to pay more for many other brands.
My "youthful" enthusiasm comes from 51 years of experience. John
)</font>
I'll thank you not to come to my defense if that's what you think is the reason that I present the Kioti tractors as great alternatives to paying high prices for "name brand" tractors.
That is the only reason that I am so enthusiastic, and if you've read my posts for any time you will see that I support others decisions to pay more for many other brands.
My "youthful" enthusiasm comes from 51 years of experience. John
OP
DAP
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Bob ... here's some of exactly what I said from the originating post.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have a HD JD mower for mowing and will continue to use it for same.
KICKER: I'd guess 40% of this property is on the wetlands map. It can get quite soft.
)</font>
Here's exactly some of what you said:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have stated the CK30 easily outclasses the B2910 and B7800, but argued the L3103 is superior. I have stated the CK30 is at least equal to the TC29 if not superior to it depending on the task at hand, but argued the TC33 is superior to the CK30.)</font>
That's exactly what I think is the erroneous comparison that I have made reference to above (as well in other threads) - and lies at the heart of the Kioti's being somewhat of a conundrum from a model line standpoint.
Now, since you are paraphrasing yourself, the above remains in context. (I realize you meant to type L3130 - for the benefit of the uninformed).
Bob, I don't recall, have you jumped on a CK25/CK30?
There is NO substitute, especially NOT just reading specifications, for first hand experiences as a basis of what is a lot of opinion.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have a HD JD mower for mowing and will continue to use it for same.
KICKER: I'd guess 40% of this property is on the wetlands map. It can get quite soft.
)</font>
Here's exactly some of what you said:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have stated the CK30 easily outclasses the B2910 and B7800, but argued the L3103 is superior. I have stated the CK30 is at least equal to the TC29 if not superior to it depending on the task at hand, but argued the TC33 is superior to the CK30.)</font>
That's exactly what I think is the erroneous comparison that I have made reference to above (as well in other threads) - and lies at the heart of the Kioti's being somewhat of a conundrum from a model line standpoint.
Now, since you are paraphrasing yourself, the above remains in context. (I realize you meant to type L3130 - for the benefit of the uninformed).
Bob, I don't recall, have you jumped on a CK25/CK30?
There is NO substitute, especially NOT just reading specifications, for first hand experiences as a basis of what is a lot of opinion.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OP
DAP
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LOL... John ... the Kioti may be an alternative, but wheres I *** frum, it ain't no low cost alternative.
John, if ya buy a house, a car, a tractor, a diswasher, a WHATEVER, and feel like you were the benefactor of a good or even great product at an attractive price, that's fandamnedtastic.
However, don't PAY the corporate office for both the product and RIGHT TO ADVERTISE IT FOR FREE - FOR THEM - to others. It undermines the rights of others who have the tough job of separating the chaff from the wheat. EVERYONE knows it easy to find folks who'll pay for sumpin and don't even know that CHAFF exists. You followin this?
In more straight forward terms, the manufacture's role is supposed to sell IT to the consumer. The consumer's role is to buy it and use it, perhaps tell a friend or two about how good it is or how bad it is, excetera. The consumer's role is NOT TO HELP THE MANUFACTURER SELL IT TO OTHERS FOR FREE. This age old trick of stealing away John. K. Public's autonomy (for the sake of profit) really ends up being a CHOICE for those paying attention.
Sell me a great tractor for a great price - TERRIFIC! Subtley command me to help you SELL IT TO OTHERS is dubious at best, devious at worset, and widespread nonetheless.
Sometimes, ya cross the line it seems.
John, if ya buy a house, a car, a tractor, a diswasher, a WHATEVER, and feel like you were the benefactor of a good or even great product at an attractive price, that's fandamnedtastic.
However, don't PAY the corporate office for both the product and RIGHT TO ADVERTISE IT FOR FREE - FOR THEM - to others. It undermines the rights of others who have the tough job of separating the chaff from the wheat. EVERYONE knows it easy to find folks who'll pay for sumpin and don't even know that CHAFF exists. You followin this?
In more straight forward terms, the manufacture's role is supposed to sell IT to the consumer. The consumer's role is to buy it and use it, perhaps tell a friend or two about how good it is or how bad it is, excetera. The consumer's role is NOT TO HELP THE MANUFACTURER SELL IT TO OTHERS FOR FREE. This age old trick of stealing away John. K. Public's autonomy (for the sake of profit) really ends up being a CHOICE for those paying attention.
Sell me a great tractor for a great price - TERRIFIC! Subtley command me to help you SELL IT TO OTHERS is dubious at best, devious at worset, and widespread nonetheless.
Sometimes, ya cross the line it seems.