Treating pole posts?

[Dozernut]

I just had an idea and boy does my head hurt/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. I am thinking of looking into "Dip-Cote". This is a liquid plastic that you dip tool handles in to give you a padded insulated grip area. If you could buy this in bulk you could waterproof your post and occasionally spray for insects. If the water cannot get to the wood, this will increase the longevity of the post immensely. I can hear the collective groans of the engineer types out there, saying "that boy is nuts"/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif! I will take my crayons and keep detailed analytical notes (HaH), of my experiment that will make those engineer types jealous! Will report findings and write a report for publication in the out- house reveiw/w3tcompact/icons/king.gif!

 

[Soundguy]

No ill words here.. but if you do this.. I would recomment cured wood. ( kiln dried )

Might get pricy, if you are doing entire post.

Soundguy

 

[yooperdave]

Dozernut-

Your idea makes my head hurt too! At least you are willing to put your own money where your mouth is. Just keep in mind that your coating will lock in any moisture already in the wood. Wood will expand and contract depending upon the relative humidity and subsequent moisture content of the wood. You might have half a chance if you could get the moisture content to less than 5% prior to the coating, and then make sure that the coating will never develop microscopic cracks which would let water vapor in and rot out the wood. Pressure treated wood is tried and proven as a solution to your building needs. Your potential loss is much greater than your potential gain - but the choice is yours.

Good luck - you will need it (lol)

Yooper Dave - my name is half nutts also

 

[Darren]

It's best to split locust soon after it's cut. Otherwise difficult doesn't begin to describe it.

 

[Dozernut]

Soundguy and Yooperdave. If you just coated the part that was in contact with the soil and left the rest of the post untreated. Wouldn't this allow the moisture to escape. I am not totally ignorant of moisture and movement in wood, being a woodworker. But I have also been looking to use my own timbers. I don't have enough Locust and Hedge For my purposes. Any suggestions. The Dip-Cote was a wild shot, but I thought I would cast out a line and see what bit. Thanks!

 

[Egon]

My Father used to stand poplar posts in a barrel of " bluestone " . I beleive it is a copper solution of some kind and do not know if it is environmentally safe or if you can even buy it now. I do know the post lasted as well as pressure treated ones and cost a lot less. This was all 40 years ago.

Egon

 

[dummy]

Plasti-dip is available in 55 gal. drums. I just bought a 6 pack of the white spray-on and it was $42.00 delivered. I couldn't find it locally, but you can direct order. Their website isn't much yet, plastidip.com. Call them and they are very helpful. 1-800-969-5432

 

[Dozernut]

Yooperdave: Just curious, why you would dry wood to 5%. The optimal moisture content for furniture building is 8% to 12%. Wood furniture once placed in its setting will take on ambient moisture, depending on room humidity. A structural post or fence post would not require such a low moisture content and would take on moisture at every humidity change. Am I missing something here. My dry sense of humor might have made you misunderstand. I only want to treat about a three foot section of the end, not the whole post. Completely encapsulating the whole post would invite failure. The object was to prevent ground water from getting to the post. I appreciate your input as I am not yet perfect and still prone to failure. I about wore this crayon down to a nub! Thanks!!!

 

[Egon]

Dozernut:

Been thinking: would not encapsulating the bottom of the post be somewhat the same as setting a post in concrete and invite the same type of problems.

Egon

 

[Dozernut]

Egon: Thanks for the reply! You are most likely right! This is great being able to tap into the collective thinking of a smart group of people. AND YOU LIKE TRACTORS! What more could you ask for, well maybe another tractor.

 

[pajoube]

I think you would rather put the post on top of the cement pad. Not sure if that would be under frost line or at ground level for you. This would allow any water to run down and not get trapped against the pole.
PJ

 

[Egon]

You are right but I was using it as an example as there are some who have concreted in their posts.

Egon

 

[yooperdave]

Hi Dozernut-


No one enjoys a dry sense of humour more than myself.
I appologize if I sounded like I had a bug in my butt.
You are right about the wood picking up ambient moisture. It needs to maintain equalibrium with its surroundings. I had the impression that you were going to completely encapsulate the wood, and would thus require removing as much moisture from the post as possible and keeping it that way. If you coat the bottom 3' to 5' of the post only, will the coating shrink and swell with the wood without letting in any moisture or vapor? Your idea sounds unique - I just have not seen this application in practice. The coating needs to fit the post like a condom. The coating if applied while the wood has a high moisture content, will become loose if the wood shrinks, and might invite unwanted moisture. There may also be a concern that the wood can not breath, and may trap a high moisture content near the bottom of the post and might produce decay. Is there a web page which could enlighten all of us with this type of product and its proper application?

Yooper Dave

 

[beenthere]

Interesting idea you have.

If I remember correctly, wood decay organisms (bacteria) require food (wood), oxygen, and moisture. Get rid of any of the three and wood will not decay.

Treating wood takes away the food source, and getting rid of the moisture isn't likely either as is well stated in these messages. Getting rid of the oxygen is possible only if the wood can be submerged or completely saturated with water (not too likely either).

If the wood could be encapsulated below the groundline with a plastic 'boot' and it be filled with water to saturate the wood, then the wood wouldn't decay. But the transition zone between the saturated wood and the unsaturated wood would likely decay and the wood would lose its strength.

I think pilings in the water will not decay below the water line, but will decay at the water line.

But its still an interesting idea, at least for discussion.

 

[Dozernut]

Yooperdave and beenthere: Heres another harebrained idea, tear it apart. Your comment about a condom made me think of this. Take an old tube from a tire, cut it, then seal one end. Place the tube over the end of the post then fill the tube around the post with dry sand or saw dust. Seal the top of the tube to the post, then set the post with earth or concrete. The fill should, in theory, help keep moisture from the post while the rubber tube keeps out the ground water and insects. The tube will expand and contract with the seasonal and humidity changes. This probably won't work but it is fun trying to figure this out. Your turn! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[Carl_NH]

Dozernut,

With the right motivation I suppose one could create one or two of these, then have a beverage, and ponder the next move.

Great for what's below gnd. trouble is it's probably 70% exposed - core would rot, quick.

Reviewing these posts, agree CCA is the choice, tho motor oil is good, better & cheaper is bleaching oil sold by the 5 gal can - leaches into the wood and replaces the water if the oak is dry enough.

Carl

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[Dozernut]

I think we have a winner /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Thanks Carl, I knew the collective genius out there in TBN land would come up with a better (and easier) solution. Long live king /w3tcompact/icons/king.gif Carl's tractor.

 

[Carl_NH]

DozerNut,

Here's some more relevant info and more options;

Hardwood trees do not treat as well as conifers, though they generally have a greater degree of natural decay resistance.

The only equipment needed is an open tank large enough to submerge posts in preservative solution. Treat the full length of the posts for best results. Posts decay fastest at ground level, so treat a minimum of one foot above ground level if not treating full length.

Pentachlorophenol and creosote are two effective preservatives for treating posts. Both of these preservatives should be mixed with No. 2 fuel oil. Posts should be cold soaked for at least 48 hours or until they do not absorb additional solution.

Also, Behr Paint - # 3-91 Dock and Fence Post preservative, found at www.behrpaint.com.

Carl

 

[Soundguy]

If you are using your own non-treated wood.. the easiest thing would be to use the copper napthelate to coat the in-ground portion.... way cheaper than the plasti dip.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

We've done alot of boar ramp reconstruction, and have pulled cresote pilings out of the water that have been there for decades with no sign of decay.... On a hot day, the pilons ( stacked in our shop yard ) will still 'bleed' a little cresote as well.... Nice stuff.

I doub't you can buy the liquid though/ anymore.

Soundguy

""I think pilings in the water will not decay below the water line, but will decay at the water line. ""