Tree Clearing w/KX121-3

[DaNag]

We just bought a lot, and need to clear it. While I've gotten a quote on the job, the thought of renting a Kubota KX121-3 is appealing...admittedly for the fun/learning factor, but hopefully to save a little $$ as well.

However, being a little wet behind the ears - I'm not sure how big of a job I'm getting myself into. I've plenty of seat time in my 3130, so I'm not totally ignorant of machinery. And, I've watched a couple of professionals with a big excavator and dozer clear our last place of significantly larger trees. So, I understand the basics - clear roots to side of tree as needed, then push it over from a point 8-12' up or so. Grab/shake a little to lose the dirt, get it to the burn pile, then level up the mess I just made.

The main grove of trees are all small alders, and there's probably about 1.5 acres of them or so. I don't think there's anything over 8" - many/most are 4-6". Pic showing most of them:

Ground is soft, but not muddy. I'm sure these will easily come out with the KX121 - I've actually pushed the smaller ones over with my 3130 bucket with limited success, but was spinning the wheels on the larger ones. What I'm not sure of, are two things.

- How long will it take? I realize there are many variables and none of you can see the site, but for the price I was quoted by a local guy with a similar Kubota mini - I could rent one and pay all expenses for 5 days. My time is worth nothing. The local, experienced guy said it would take him 1.5 - 2 days at most...so even if it takes me twice as long, I'll come out ahead here.

- How big a tree can the KX123 can handle? The small alders are 90% of the work - but there are perhaps 10-15 larger cedar/fir trees, mostly in the 10-20" diameter and 60-80' tall. There are a couple that are 24-28" in diameter, but I'm guessing those might be pushing the limits...although again, the ground is quite soft, and roots don't run very deep in this location.

Any words of wisdom? Just do it and have fun, or....?

 

[Bob Rooks]

If it were me (just sayin') I'd rent a CTL with a forestry package and have twice the fun in half the time.

 

[Tags]

I've done a lot of those size trees with my 161, you just need to be extremely careful that the tree doesn't roll around the side of the bucket and slide down the boom right into the cab the you are sitting in. If you damage a rental machine you may be in the hook for repairs depending on their policy. The rental of a 121 for the week is probably around $1000 for the week so only you can decide if the money is better spent in you doing it or putting it towards someone else doing it. Hopefully the rental machine has a thumb, if it doesn't the job will not be as easy. Hope this helps.

 

[MBTRAC]

Clearing trees (especially something 10-20" dia & 50' or greater ) isn't for the faint hearted or inexperienced - combined that with using a compact excavator of limited reach & you'll be placing yourself a little too close to the "action" for my liking (an excavator in inexperienced hands is also easily damaged, usually on the boom or swing in clearing operations).
To give an idea of scale below is a photo of our 22T excavator preparing to remove a tree (comparable is size to your larger trees) - the higher the bucket is placed the greater the leverage the "push" will be placed about 1/2 way up this tree. Also with this tree being "springy", as high as possible the branches are in the process of being removed to prevent catapulting "spears" & to aid felling into the narrow slot we had as a drop zone without causing consequential damage to structures on the ground

With the bulk of your clearing which is smaller trees, as others have recommended a CTL would prove the better/quicker "tool" & is far easier to operate.

 

[excav8ter]

I think you would be pushing the 121's limits.....that's just me....I have a Mini-X that is slightly smaller than the 121, and I wouldn't touch that job with a mini....something with some reach and power is what you need. I would hit that with my Kobelco SR135 and it's hydraulic thumb...plenty of power and reach to grab, remove and stack with out spending most of your time tracking all over the site.

 

[mike69440]

Either a 12-15 Ton excavator or a large CTL is needed. A KX121 will take weeks / Months to clear that and is dangeously undersized for that job.

 

[lumberjack1986]

Down here 6 days rent makes for 2 full weeks of rent time. Clearing 6-10" trees with a 121 isn't a big deal. On the bigger trees, depending on the situation, I would cut them then dig out the stumps assuming this is stuff that you would enjoy.


While a 13T excavator would make this job a snap, you're not a contractor with time constraints.

The biggest slow down will be consolidating the material into a burn pile. Assuming ground conditions allowed, I would dig the trees with ex and swing them into the right orientation, then consolidate/forward/pile with a loader of some description.


With the exception of the fresh pine, this was mainly cleared with a KX121 in 2-3 hours. The biggest we removed whole was maybe 14" dbh, 18" on the stump, give or take.




A day after I lit it.

 

[excav8ter]

A quick video of some clearing i did on Saturday, Feb 9. Lots of Pine trees, tightly grouped in clusters of 2-6 trees coming from basically one stump. Cleared about 130' long by 100' wide.... had to carry them about 130' at the the most to where i stacked them.

Kobelco 135sr clearing trees. JVC Adixxion POV camera - YouTube

 

[Rustyiron]

I think you are right on track with your plan although a bigger machine is allways better, and your larger trees you describe are deffinetly too big for the 121. I think that the bigger rent for a bigger machine will come close to equal out in the rental time needed but the difference is that you'll be able to get all the trees with the bigger machine (15K-18K class).
Be sure to get one with a thumb! Also be sure to have some help there. You are going to have tremendous piles of trees in a hurry! Some one with a saw or another machine to move & stack them so you can keep the rented machine working.

 

[tlbuser]

I have to agree here. Things can, and do, go very wrong quickly. A simple move of the wrist in the wrong direction can make for a bad day. Pushing a pile of trees, things can roll over the top or side and come right into the operators station. Stuff you never expect can get brought up by the tracks and into the operators area (cable, vines, roots, etc.). Every day, I'm thankful for making it through safe. I posted this awhile back, but it's still fresh in our minds when we're working.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/214199-accident.html

 

[kco]

Perhaps it would be easiest just to fell the dozen or so larger trees with a chain saw and remove the stumps with the excavator.

 

[Boondox]

While I second all the cautionary words, I think this is doable with the equipment and the timeframe you've mentioned. I harvest firewood with my B3030 and KX-121S. The largest trees are rock maple about 18" across. While too heavy for the mini-ex to pick up and move, I have been able to lift portions and use the chainsaw to cut off 8-12' sections which are then easily carried away. Or I slice them into stove length and use the RTV to haul them down to the splitter.

The largest tree I harvested was a massive black cherry with a diameter at the base of 42". With that tree I sawed it into six foot sections and used the blade to roll it across the meadow; the girth was simply too large for my thumb to get a grip on it. If you have an angled blade you can make mid-course corrections as it rolls.

Pete

 

[lumberjack1986]

Cut the bigger trees and dig out the stumps if you don't feel comfortable pushing them over whole. I would suggest leaving the stumps taller than I did, however it still works.

That's a "24 inch" bucket in the picture; I haven't measured its outside dimension. Kubota 121-3.

 

[mike69440]

I have to agree here. Things can, and do, go very wrong quickly. A simple move of the wrist in the wrong direction can make for a bad day. Pushing a pile of trees, things can roll over the top or side and come right into the operators station. Stuff you never expect can get brought up by the tracks and into the operators area (cable, vines, roots, etc.). Every day, I'm thankful for making it through safe. I posted this awhile back, but it's still fresh in our minds when we're working.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/214199-accident.html

Yuck, I missed that thread back in 2011. Very sad. Guess I have angels looking after me. A KX121 has no business clearing anything but small trees & brush. Yes it can slowly work at the roots of a large tree, but that tree can get revenge real fast.

 

[lumberjack1986]

There's no reason a 121 couldn't clear a large tree, provided it's fairly neutral in weight/lean and you can install a high line/rope to pull with another piece of suitable equipment to pull it into the lay.

The 121 has no business pushing any "large" tree over by itself. Cut the tree then dig out the stump!

This is a 30" stump, 20 minutes between the pictures, another 10 minutes to roll the stump out and fill the hole back in.




This stump took a while longer, it's my biggest to date with a machine this small. Guessing it's near 40" if it was ALAPed. (Cut as low as practical).

 

[DaNag]

Don't you hate it when folks don't follow up with results? I''ll rectify my guilty behavior.

After going over many options and taking in opinions here and elsewhere, I decided to tackle it myself - mostly.

First up - I did it with even a smaller excavator. The rental place I had in mind didn't have KX-121's, I was mistaken - all they had was a KX-91. Based on no universal opinion regarding the 121's capabilities, this caused me some concern.

In chatting with my local excavator/dozer pro, he mentioned another outfit in town that rented Cat equipment. They don't advertise to the public very much - they primarily cater to contractors and the timber industry. Chatted with them, and ended up renting a 304E...still smaller than a 121, but I was assured it was up to the task in the right hands, and given enough time. I had the latter part covered...the former, not so much.

The first two days were brutal...but then, it started to click. I noticed I was no longer thinking about what control did what, and was just starting to move the sticks without thinking too much about it. Another day was spent practicing being smooth, then a couple more days honing technique. After two weeks, the trees were down - but doing it again today, I could probably knock them out in under a week.

As it turns out, the biggest problem wasn't knocking the trees down - it was moving and stacking them. The little Cat had no swing power, and the alder grove was thick - so there was a lot of dragging trees around to clear them from obstructions, instead of picking them up and simply swinging them to a stack. Also, another shortcoming that was quickly noticed - limited reach. Creating tall burn piles just ain't possible with these little guys, so I ended up with about 20 or so smaller piles instead of two or three.

With the trees down, I had to call in the pro to grade for the pole barn - quite a bit of dirt needed to be moved about, and I took heed of the advice to bring in somebody who knew what they were doing. While he was here doing that, he took a couple hours to consolidate my 20 piles into two, and we got one lit off before the burn ban kicked in.

While I definitely saved money doing it myself, my time is now free. Were I still working for a living, hiring it out would have been a no-brainer. And, I readily tell folks now that should the opportunity present itself, there are few things in life more enjoyable than running an excavator. The fun factor alone was worth it, and now that I've a little skill under my belt - renting it again for future chores will be far more productive.

Pics show the final result. A little different, eh? Last remaining pile gets burned soon, pasture grass seed going down after the ashes are spread. Then, everything sits as-is until we can afford to build.

Another update in a couple years.

 

[Bob Rooks]

That turned out very nice. Good job.

 

[ultrarunner]

Don't you hate it when folks don't follow up with results? I''ll rectify my guilty behavior.

After going over many options and taking in opinions here and elsewhere, I decided to tackle it myself - mostly.

First up - I did it with even a smaller excavator. The rental place I had in mind didn't have KX-121's, I was mistaken - all they had was a KX-91. Based on no universal opinion regarding the 121's capabilities, this caused me some concern.

In chatting with my local excavator/dozer pro, he mentioned another outfit in town that rented Cat equipment. They don't advertise to the public very much - they primarily cater to contractors and the timber industry. Chatted with them, and ended up renting a 304E...still smaller than a 121, but I was assured it was up to the task in the right hands, and given enough time. I had the latter part covered...the former, not so much.

The first two days were brutal...but then, it started to click. I noticed I was no longer thinking about what control did what, and was just starting to move the sticks without thinking too much about it. Another day was spent practicing being smooth, then a couple more days honing technique. After two weeks, the trees were down - but doing it again today, I could probably knock them out in under a week.

As it turns out, the biggest problem wasn't knocking the trees down - it was moving and stacking them. The little Cat had no swing power, and the alder grove was thick - so there was a lot of dragging trees around to clear them from obstructions, instead of picking them up and simply swinging them to a stack. Also, another shortcoming that was quickly noticed - limited reach. Creating tall burn piles just ain't possible with these little guys, so I ended up with about 20 or so smaller piles instead of two or three.

With the trees down, I had to call in the pro to grade for the pole barn - quite a bit of dirt needed to be moved about, and I took heed of the advice to bring in somebody who knew what they were doing. While he was here doing that, he took a couple hours to consolidate my 20 piles into two, and we got one lit off before the burn ban kicked in.

While I definitely saved money doing it myself, my time is now free. Were I still working for a living, hiring it out would have been a no-brainer. And, I readily tell folks now that should the opportunity present itself, there are few things in life more enjoyable than running an excavator. The fun factor alone was worth it, and now that I've a little skill under my belt - renting it again for future chores will be far more productive.

Pics show the final result. A little different, eh? Last remaining pile gets burned soon, pasture grass seed going down after the ashes are spread. Then, everything sits as-is until we can afford to build.

Another update in a couple years.

View attachment 338383View attachment 338384View attachment 338385View attachment 338386

Enjoyed following your updates...

Must be a great feeling of satisfaction know all that you have acomplished!

Don't wait so long to post next time!

When do you find time for the C-Dory boat?