Trespassing signs

[amigauser]

Connecticut also protects the landowner from liability if you allow FREE public land access. In my younger years I was in a local Fish & Game Club and we had lots of land to hunt on due to that law. Just about all of that land is now developed with housing now unfortunately.

AN ACT CONCERNING LIABILITY FOR THE RECREATIONAL USE OF LANDS.

Connecticut Recreational Use Statute

 

[RaydaKub]

I'd have to doubt you're statement regarding losing your ability to fence your property later unless there was a written agreement about public access. My neighbor recently fenced off access to the river (yes, here in Idaho). The public was up in arms. Lawsuit was filed. Court ruled in favor of the landowner. Yes it was used for access for more than 7 years.

The local IBM site here used to close their gates 1 time per year just to be able to keep that claim. Except for that one day per year, it was wide open and people used to use the private roads as a shortcut instead of going around. Then 9/11 happened. They put in new gates that close nightly automatically now.

 

[JRobyn]

I approached some hunters once with my right hand in my jacket pocket. That story quickly blossomed into one about me "brandishing a pistol." Granted, there might have been a pistol in my pocket, but there was not one in there on that day. I went and talked to the sheriff and got that one straight with him immediately. I told him I was okay with everyone else thinking the story was true, but I wanted him to know what the real skinny was.

My signs are ten feet off the ground. When I started that, I stopped having to replace them every year. A survey crew came through and had one of those spray paint can on a pole gizmos. I guess they were our typical hunters, as they sprayed paint over the "NO" above, "hunting, trapping, trespassing," and wrote "OK," obliterating the words, "trapping," and "trespassing." Cute, eh? I'm sure they are all solid property rights guys when they are at home.

Good one!

Our property has a common use access easement road that runs down the property line between and us and the adjacent landowner. She is great neighbor and pretty good friend. She doesn't live on the land, but a few miles down the road. The road has multiple no trespassing signs posted. A few years after we bought the property, and after we had spent a bunch of time and money improving the road (mostly hole filling and gravelling), we heard a bunch of 4-wheelers roaring up and down said road. It sounded like they had gone down the south fork of the road, which I knew had no way out.

I happened to have several guns with me that day; I strapped on my .44 mag in a bandolier holster, already had a semi-auto .22 on the hip, and grabbed the 30-06. I hopped in the old Bronco, parked it crossways blocking the road where they would have to come back out and waited, standing beside the truck with all the weapons and looking as mean as I could muster;-) It only took a few minutes. There were 4 of them. Even through the helmet visors, I could see their eyes get big as they slowed and stopped. The lead guy took off his helmet asked in very timid voice if there was a problem. I asked how they had missed the several no trespassing signs. He said that his aunt (used my neighbors name) had told them they could ride there and (to his credit, respectfully) asked exactly what part of road and property was hers versus ours. So I told him, then I apologized if I had frightened them, but said I was protective of the road and the property and asked them politely if they would please take care to not spin their tires and rut up the road. And that since they were kin to my neighbor, they were welcome to ride down there whenever thy wanted. That has been over 5 years ago, and I don't think there have been ANY 4-wheelers on the property since! I am guessing (hoping) that there are stories going around about some mean, crazy man with bunches of guns that patrols that road!

 

[Jay4200]

I've never had much of a problem with trash or riff-raff. Some stuff does get dumped - I did have to dispose of 20 tires when I bought my last piece of land, which sucks. I do occasionally find a drink cup or water bottles (they're the worst) - hunters are pretty good ATV riders usually even better, "nature hikers" are absolutely the worst at leaving trash (danged hippies), and dirtbikers never litter. I hate hikers. Anyway, yes, I do have to police a small amount of other peoples trash, but that's just part of my service to society. Honestly though, I think I would have a bigger problem with that if my land was posted. More and more people do appreciate us "open use" landowners these days. Except those danged pretentious hikers, of course.

Am I misreading Jay4200's posts and his intent or is everyone missing his sarcasm?

Oh no, there is little sarcasm. So-called 'nature lovers' (hikers, horse folks, etc) are the absolute worst as far as respecting landowners. They feel that they are entitled to using your land, and are the first to leave litter behind. I still have yet to ever see a horse rider carry a pooper-scooper. The motorized recreation crowd are generally the most respectful, especially the dirtbike crowd.

As much as I hate trail bicyclists (also pretentious), I do allow a local bicycling club to use my land as part of a national off-road race that they sponsor. The multi-town race is 62 miles (crazy bastards) with a section of the course routed through my land. Permission is required for something like that though, and they do come through and clean up after the slob bicyclists.

JayC

 

[big bubba]

well, lots of ideas here. ALL seem basically on the de(fensive). just a few questions:
1) are you living on the property you are trying to defend?
2) do you have some kind of "neighborhood watch" system in place in the area you are trying to defend?
3) have you identified the profile of those who trespass, or they all manner of the general (redneck/lawbreaking) population? in other words, are they local or not from around here?

whether you're fencing cattle or keeping "trespassers" out, isn't fencing or sign posting just a psychological barrier that unless you're there, you can't defend unless you understand the nature of the intruder? if you want to get in a violent or aggressive mode, then be there & be prepared to deal with it. but identify & understand the nature of the enemy!
it's always a razor's edge between saying "get out or else" and wimpy "well, guess it's okay" statements.
Whatever it is, know the trespasser and be prepared to deal with the consequences you have set up for yourself. my best, been on both sides.

 

[Furu]

Oh no, there is little sarcasm. So-called 'nature lovers' (hikers, horse folks, etc) are the absolute worst as far as respecting landowners. They feel that they are entitled to using your land, and are the first to leave litter behind. I still have yet to ever see a horse rider carry a pooper-scooper. The motorized recreation crowd are generally the most respectful, especially the dirtbike crowd.

As much as I hate trail bicyclists (also pretentious), I do allow a local bicycling club to use my land as part of a national off-road race that they sponsor. The multi-town race is 62 miles (crazy bastards) with a section of the course routed through my land. Permission is required for something like that though, and they do come through and clean up after the slob bicyclists.

JayC

If you are accurately portraying your dirt bikers and quad drivers they are a different breed than any I have ever encountered. We have over $5000.00 worth of damage to our roads due to bikers and quads ripping around the corners and slinging both gravel and fines all over to where we have severe road erosion. If they wanted to participate in repairs and chip in to the gravel funds I am sure they would be less objectionable. Now lets talk about out and out vandalism. They ride off the logging roads through the seedling replant areas and kill hundreds of seedlings. If they found someone riding through their property/backyard they would not like it. I have heard them stop when they know someone is present and heard their conversations and they know they are trespassing but they don't care as long as they don't get caught.
If you want folks making work for you and costing you your valuable resources I guess you have more time and money than most of us do.
Our experience is that the hikers/walkers pick up garbage and remove it unlike those with the machines who care only about themselves and riding like **** through it leaving beer and soda cans and bottles behind.
Bottom line is everything I experience is the exact opposite of your descriptions of people and their actions. The dirt bikers are the absolute worst of the bunch but the quad riders are close behind.
I have yet to meet one with any respect for other's property it is all about them.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

If you are accurately portraying your dirt bikers and quad drivers they are a different breed than any I have ever encountered. We have over $5000.00 worth of damage to our roads due to bikers and quads ripping around the corners and slinging both gravel and fines all over to where we have severe road erosion. If they wanted to participate in repairs and chip in to the gravel funds I am sure they would be less objectionable. Now lets talk about out and out vandalism. They ride off the logging roads through the seedling replant areas and kill hundreds of seedlings. If they found someone riding through their property/backyard they would not like it. I have heard them stop when they know someone is present and heard their conversations and they know they are trespassing but they don't care as long as they don't get caught.
If you want folks making work for you and costing you your valuable resources I guess you have more time and money than most of us do.
Our experience is that the hikers/walkers pick up garbage and remove it unlike those with the machines who care only about themselves and riding like **** through it leaving beer and soda cans and bottles behind.
Bottom line is everything I experience is the exact opposite of your descriptions of people and their actions. The dirt bikers are the absolute worst of the bunch but the quad riders are close behind.
I have yet to meet one with any respect for other's property it is all about them.

 

[sfloggie]

I had two situations such as yours with different Avenues of Approach. Both approaches were due to State Law issues.

* We had 80 acres in OK and decided to fence because of the law about liability if cattle get out. I coordinated with the neighbors and then spent $1100 on a survey plus $16000 on environmental repairs, fence and a small dozer to go in front of the surveyor.
- This worked until a neighbor hit me with a lawsuit because she said she owned a portion of my land due to Adverse Possession. After a year of flying back and forth from VA to OK we settled with me having to tear down the southern fence line ($2400), put the old fence back in place. We had planned to live in OK, but sold as who needs these type of neighbors!

* We now have 113 acres in VA. The Conservation Officer (verified by state site review) told me we were liable ( if the land was not "Posted")for environmental damage (wetlands) and physical harm to the trespasser. He told us and we checked with the state to score (three hashes) on a tree (or paint three) at each property line corner and place "Posted" signs about every hundred feet.

I did so and still had problems, so I added cameras. Then I emailed pictures to the Conservation Office and to the farmer who worked the 22 acres on the front of our land. Soon these two were able to talk to neighbors I did not know and things settled down.

I also had to have this land surveyed for $14,500 as it was so deep and wooded, plus a river to the south.

One neighbor told me he appreciated the effort as it was now quite for the first time in 10 years. I do allow hunters if they give me a Permission Slip from the state wildlife site which I provide to the Conservation Officer who has 24 hour access to my land.

Wordy, I know, but this is a painful process. I asked one guy why they had not brought the land if they wanted access so badly. No answer.

Love the land and the peace it gives me.

Best to you,
Jim

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Signs only keep out the honest people. Just last week the neighbor called at at about 10:00 pm. He said some jerks were riding around in one of our fields on quads and shooting at deer with pistols while moving. This is not the first time this has happened. Any ideas how to stop this? And no, the game commission is not any help.

Since you say F&G is useless, I recommend dialing 911 prior to the confrontation. Tell them the circumstances, and tell them that you are arming yourself to confront and hold them until regular police respond. That should generate a faster response on the part of law enforcement.

The unauthorized discharging of firearms on your property is technically a felony offense in most states. It is obvious that if you were to confront them, that you would reasonably be in fear of injury or death at their hands, therefor you should be legally able to bear and brandish a firearm while doing so on your property. ANY threatening response by them would reasonably constitute grounds for a lethal response (i.e. shooting them.)

But you are in Pennsylvania, so I don't know how stupid the cops, lawyers, and politicians are in that state or your locality. If it's anything like the Philadelphia cops, then they're just as much criminals as the ones jacking the deer.

 

[jwinner]

Since you say F&G is useless, I recommend dialing 911 prior to the confrontation. Tell them the circumstances, and tell them that you are arming yourself to confront and hold them until regular police respond. That should generate a faster response on the part of law enforcement.

The unauthorized discharging of firearms on your property is technically a felony offense in most states. It is obvious that if you were to confront them, that you would reasonably be in fear of injury or death at their hands, therefor you should be legally able to bear and brandish a firearm while doing so on your property. ANY threatening response by them would reasonably constitute grounds for a lethal response (i.e. shooting them.)

I'm not sure that it works like this. That is, I'm not sure if there are guys with guns on your property, that you can arm yourself, go out there after them, shoot them or even point a gun at them, and then claim it was self defense. Some states require you to run from intruders even in your own home - and if your state has castle doctrine(stand your ground laws), that usually only applies to a home and curtiledge (like a garage, fenced in yard, etc).

Hopefully law enforcement will support a property owner in an obvious situation of self defense, even if they approached the trespassers. I suppose everyone knows to consult your own state laws and maybe ask an attorney before deciding how to handle those situations.