Trespassing + theft issue

MotorSeven · Nov 11, 2011

If you go public with the photo's you might as well take down your trail cameras, as they will be useless or worse, disappear.

Sorry, I am more direct kinda guy. I'd go knock on their door, hand them a bill for the stolen items, a written trespass warning for your property and tell them you expect payment in 24 hrs or you are filing a small claims suit, assuring them that you have hard evidence of their guilt. Then just walk away, do not respond to their reaction...at all.....ZERO. Your photo's are your Ace...never show it until the last hand. If they don't pay, drag them through court and have some fun.

beppington · Nov 11, 2011

MotorSeven said:
If you go public with the photo's you might as well take down your trail cameras, as they will be useless or worse, disappear.

Sorry, I am more direct kinda guy. I'd go knock on their door, hand them a bill for the stolen items, a written trespass warning for your property and tell them you expect payment in 24 hrs or you are filing a small claims suit, assuring them that you have hard evidence of their guilt. Then just walk away, do not respond to their reaction...at all.....ZERO. Your photo's are your Ace...never show it until the last hand. If they don't pay, drag them through court and have some fun.

Wouldn't you be trespassing?!

It may be a cold, hard move, but the idea of taking them directly to court without ever even trying to speak to them, confront them, encounter them in any way, & without posting billboards, distributing fliers, asking around about them, etc. seems the cleanest ... They'd have no grounds to counter-sue or argue anything at all against you, etc. Simply: They committed a crime & you take them directly to court for it, without adding all the potential confusion, conflicting opinions, he-said/ he-said, etc. that could arise if you contact them in any way.

kidr · Nov 11, 2011

The messed up way things are today he would get arrested for bio-terrorism. But I cant help but love the idea.

Nope ,they just happened to trespass while he was liquid fertilizing.

dmccarty · Nov 11, 2011

beppington said:
Wouldn't you be trespassing?!
...

No.

Unless they have posted the property, maybe fenced it or the OP has been trespassed before. Depending on his state law of course :laughing:

Generally, you can walk up to someones door and ring.

Not our door though, since the access is gated, fenced AND posted. Oh, yeah, we do not have a door bell so you would have to knock.

Later,
Dan

NorTracNY · Nov 11, 2011

From an attorney friend.... DAs are often elected. Contact them directly and ask them why they are not pressing charges? If it's value of the berries, then give them that number. If they do not want to prosecute (maybe DA and criminals are friends) let the DA know you're going public. Also, take them to court. A criminal prosecution is separate from you going to court to get the compensation.

Little_Grizzly · Nov 11, 2011

I know this won't be a popular answer but in the interest of not condemning a person that isn't here to defend themselves....
Perhaps the DA is not taking the case only because it doesn't rank up high enough to displace cases he IS working on. We just don't know if the docket is full of rapists, murderers and thefts on an epic scale. I for one would be beside myself in rage if I found out the case he was prosecuting for me was displaced because of a bucket of berries!
I know this won't be popular here but we don't know all the issues.
Get him the value of the berries and emphasize the trespassing issue and perhaps the property damage of them trying to get around your fence. Then let the DA decide if it ranks high enough to displace other cases. If not, well that is what small claims court is for!
I still insist this isn't about berries. The violation that trespassing represents is bigger in my mind. It also takes a bigger criminal intent than just snatching some berries.

David P · Dec 13, 2011

*** I just noticed that I had already posted this update earlier in the thread so you can skip ahead to the last portion where I sent the e-mail yesterday ***

Update:

The first Trooper to handle my case was let go; the second Trooper was reassigned, although he did forward the case to the Prosecutor's office so I am now on the third Trooper. I spoke with her a few weeks ago (before hunting season) and she informed me that the Prosecutor's office will not be taking any action on my case because they were unable to determine the value of the berries, if you can believe that. Seven years of college and they are unable to figure out that the value of the berries is under $100 and that they were stolen from my orchard?! (larceny under $100, misdemeanor). That is simply an excuse.

If they would have been straightforward with me and simply stated that they were sorry but they have a terribly burdensome caseload right now and have more pressing issues at hand, I wouldn't have been happy, but at least they would have given me a straight answer. Telling me that they can't figure out the value of the berries borders on absurd.

Yesterday I sent the following e-mail to the prosecutor's office:

My wife and I own a blueberry farm and had some fruit stolen in July. I reported this to the State Police and provided them with approximately ten 8 1/2" x 11" pictures of the suspects taken during the commission of their crime, along with their names and address (my wife is able to identify the female suspect from personal contact). Our case was forwarded to the XX County Prosecutor's Office and I recently learned that no action will be taken. Trooper YY, from the ZZ Post, informed me that the rationale provided her was that the value of the berries was unable to be determined. I find this unsatisfactory and would therefore like to schedule a brief meeting with someone from the Prosecutor's office. Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.

Regards,

David P

______________________

At this point I'm not very hopeful about my prospects for a meeting. I will update the thread as soon as I hear back from them...... if I do. If not, I will update you all on my next course of action. As soon as I figure out how to black out their faces, I will try to upload some of the pics of the thieves in action. I give the Bushnell Trophy cam high marks for the quality of the photos, especially at the distance they were taken.

beppington · Dec 13, 2011

I still say you should determine the value of the berries yourself, & provide that to them, along with all details/ factors you use to determine that value. That should eliminate their excuse.

David P · Dec 13, 2011

beppington said:
I still say you should determine the value of the berries yourself, & provide that to them, along with all details/ factors you use to determine that value. That should eliminate their excuse.

That's my plan for if I get a meeting with the Prosecutor.

dmccarty · Dec 13, 2011

I would not like the answer they gave you either. A simple call to you, a quick look on a website or checked when they went grocery shopping could have given them the value of the product.

I do not think I would let it go and certainly not given their answer.

Later,
Dan

David P · Dec 13, 2011

dmccarty · Dec 13, 2011

:laughing: I like the photo of them crawling under the fence.

Impressive photos from the camera. :thumbsup:

I can see how they might have a trouble valuing the fruit. How much did they have in the containers? How much did it weigh etc?

Flip side is that they are caught red handed on your land and stealing. If the land was post per the statutes a trespass charge should be easy if the faces are recognizable in the photos.

Later,
Dan

aczlan · Dec 13, 2011

Nice pictures.

dmccarty said:
If the land was post per the statutes a trespass charge should be easy if the faces are recognizable in the photos.

IIRC, his state has a law for higher trespassing charges against those who trespass in posted food growing fields (it specifically mentions blueberries)

Aaron Z

Mousefield · Dec 13, 2011

I'm impressed by the pictures. Maybe make a Christmas card out of one of the pics and send it to them, with of course a proper inscription inside. :laughing: :laughing:

aczlan · Dec 13, 2011

Mousefield said:
I'm impressed by the pictures. Maybe make a Christmas card out of one of the pics and send it to them, with of course a proper inscription inside. :laughing: :laughing:

Change the camera location first (point it at where the camera was then it took the pictures and put a fake one there?)...

Aaron Z

Car Doc · Dec 13, 2011

The one thing I dont see in those pics is the no trespassing signs.

chucko · Dec 13, 2011

Car Doc said:
The one thing I dont see in those pics is the no trespassing signs.

Come on everyone knows it was not theirs for the taking. Us them him even their dogs.
The OP is better than me as I would have just put my foot to their backside

zmjc · Dec 13, 2011

Car Doc said:
The one thing I dont see in those pics is the no trespassing signs.

Around here, a fence automatically means no trespassing (by law)...

beppington · Dec 13, 2011

Car Doc said:
The one thing I dont see in those pics is the no trespassing signs.

chucko said:
Come on everyone knows it was not theirs for the taking. Us them him even their dogs.
The OP is better than me as I would have just put my foot to their backside

"Come on everyone knows" isn't good enough, chucko, at least according to law here in our home state of FL anyway.

FL's fencing laws basically allow citizens to go anywhere unless it's properly fenced & posted. In other words, in FL everywhere is free & open to the public unless it's stated otherwise, & correctly stated otherwise at that (proper terminology on signs that are posted at proper intervals, correctly sized font, etc.).

What you're implying is that everywhere is not free & open unless it says 'open to the public'.

Even as a 60-acre rural land owner who has had trespassers, I think FL law has it right. I think it's reasonable to have established that we live in a generally free country & therefore to put the onus on the private land owner to properly notify folks that the land is private & not to be trespassed upon. The alternate to that seems more like a police state: You can't go anywhere unless it says you can.