TSC, What were they thinking?(Dark horse)

[Soundguy]

My local TSC's will discount a lil for old stock.. but not enough to make you buy usually. only in rare circumstances have i got them to take 30% off of some items they were stuck with.. etc.

soundguy

I have to admit that I'm quite disappointed at TSC's policy as well. As I stated in the other thread, I'm more of a 'sit back and wait' kind of guy so I never considered buying one. The quality of construction and materials used looked suspect to me, but what do I know about engineering? I only based that observation on a comparison to my commercial model that cost me about twice as much. Mostly my big disappointment is that in most cases TSC isn't taking the junk tillers back when they fail on the first use. That can't be good for their business!

I drove through my local Rural King yesterday and they have a load of finish mowers and rotary cutters that look terrible due to sitting outside since this last summer. I'd expect them to do what they always do and mark them down about 50% or so to move them before winter. I didn't see a name on it, but they did have 1 red colored tiller that was obviously a 'price leader' tiller sitting outside rusting away. If it isn't a total junk piece of equipment like 'Dark Horse', I'd bet a guy could pick it up for a song and just repaint it.

I do sincerely wish the best to all who bought the Dark Horse implements based on their cheap price and are stuck with them since TSC mostly isn't taking them back. Good luck and don't be shy about pressing the issue with TSC.

 

[300UGUY]

W.C Fields said it best, It's morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. How can a chinese item, that has to be shipped thousands of miles, by a combination of boat, train, tractor trailer, and be marked to sell at a profit for the company making it AND the store selling it be CHEAPER. It can't just be labor, there is not that much labor in a piece of equipment. It has to be the materials, the product warranty, and possibly something else hmmm.... something else.......... oh, they are communists not capitalists.

I think it is mostly labor. There labor cost is 3 to 5 % of the US labor cost. This is also factored into the matieral cost. And they have economies of scale that we don't. For example, their iron ore production is 10X ours.

 

[CDsdad]

I think it is mostly labor. There labor cost is 3 to 5 % of the US labor cost. This is also factored into the matieral cost. And they have economies of scale that we don't. For example, their iron ore production is 10X ours.

I believe that, too. Chineses will live 8 to a cardboard box, and work 14 hours a day for a nickel and a 1/2 a sack of rice, no pension or 401k, and the sweatshop doesn't have to provide insurance for them for the rest of their life when they retire. I even seen on TV where they had 7 folks on a little mini-bike headed back to their cardboard condos after a hard day at the sweatshop. Glad I'm not over there.

 

[forester2]

In a former life, I used to sell all the farm retailers; TSC, Quality(gone), Centeral Tractor(gone) Farm&Fleet, Atwoods etc. TSC's business plan is to focus on specific product segments and concentrate on those as opposed to having a wide variety of products as the other farm retailers do. My experience with thier distribution network was that it was aweful and this led to constant product outages. TSC did not buy Quaily F&F or Central just some thier store lease locations. These companies did not go out of business due thier business models but because of thier finacial manipulations. I'd be very interested in watching the future relationship between TSC and Kingcutter.

 

[alanbane]

Will the KING KUTTER parts interchange with the Dark Horse brands in the tillers?If so how could you go wrong buying one.I owm a King Kutter Finish mowers and can get parts for them in 2 days.

 

[KHNewman]

I thought I might jump in on the China manufacturing subject as I have some expertise here. I have been manufacturing, marketing and selling products made in southeast Asia for 15 years now. While I primarily work in housewares (cookware, flatware, cutlery etc.) it is all metals processing.

First off the government does not give them materials for free. That is a completely false statement. China's materail prices are effected by the global cost of raw materials like, iron ore, aluminum, nickel etc and these costs float in conjunction with the global market just like oil or gas.

There are factories in China that can produce these materials more cost effectively in some cases then say Germany or Japan. For example if you need carbon steel you would buy it on the local Chinese market but if you need stainless steel (i.e. 304) you might buy it from Japan or Germany.

The other factors that impact cost are:
1.) China's labor is obviosuly dramatically cheaper than the US labor rate.
2.) Health Insurance is either non existent or dramatically cheaper.
3.) Land - Land and Taxes on Land are dramatically cheaper
4.) Environmental Regulations - things like pollution control devices and disposal of dangerous materials are much more loosely regulated and or ignored. These are expensive considerations at a US facility.
5.) Governemnt sbsidies - the Chinese government subsidizes many industries with duty drawbacks subsidies. These subsidies are designed to encourage the export trade in select categories. Much like the US government subsidizes US farmers.
6.) Currency - China artifically holds the value of its currency down and pegs it to the US Dollar. This is a sore spot in US-China realtions and China is trying to edge it up gradually but it is a double edged sword creating an inflationary environment in China as well as the US. People don't realize every time China increases the value of their currency the cost of goods in the US rises accordingly. So a 5% increases in the RMB results in a 3-5% increases in the average widget you buy at Wal-Mart.
7.) Funding - The Chinese banking system makes credit readily available to manufacturers to help fund their operations.

While China does have some top qulaity factories, largely run by US, European, Taiwanses or Hongkogese owners there are many really crappy factories. These factories figure out how to make stuff cheap and quality is a secondary consideration. That means cheating on materials, manufacturing processes, finishing processes, quality control etc. The trouble in being overly critical of this type of peration is that there is a huge global demand for these type of products because they are cheap. I struggle all the time where I wish I could sell a "better quality" product but run in to the retail price point wall. This is the "wall" where once you cross a certain point the volume plunges and it is not worth the retailer keeping the item in their store because the rate of sales does not warrant the space.

Think of a retailer like a store for rent by the square foot. In order to produce enough revenue to cover overhead they need to make sure the average square foot meets a certain dollar profitability. If an item cannot maintain that rate it isn't paying the rent and needs to be discontinued and repalced with something that does. In many cases better quality more expensive items fail at mass market stores that need volume to survive.

Just remember that you get what you pay for...if I buy a landscape rake delivered to my house for $500 I know exactly what I am getting and I have made the decision based on how much and how hard I will use an item and accept the tradeoff. If I pay $1,500 for the same item again I know why I made that choice and I expect a lot more from the $1,500 rake than the $500 rake.

 

[jinman]

Thanks Kevin (KHNewman), very well stated.

 

[have_blue]

Yes, very well stated, and so true!

I can only add that Chinese materials and tools are more common than many realize. You have to be very careful now days, it's getting harder to know what's Chinese and what's American made. They import implements and tools from China and paint them many colors. I've seen obviously Chinese made tools with a proud old American trademark on it, and the owners think they bought the best. That's why you can't trust band names any more. You have to be able to recognize quality when you see it.