Tundra vs. Chevy

[s219]

Selecting a new vehicle is like selecting the politician you are going to vote for, the lesser of the evils is the best you can do.

I definitely feel that way about shopping for appliances and cars, and picking politicians too. Pick the best you can, but they will all have problems reported if you look hard enough, and none are close to perfect. And on the flip side, don't pin your personal or family pride to a brand. I know a lot of people that are brand-loyal or politician-loyal to a fault. Doesn't work out too well when the brand or politician does something you wouldn't approve of. To me, none of the large multi-national car companies or politicians are worth defending past about 1-2 sentences. My personal pride has a fairly tight zone centered around things *I* can control....

 

[Copperhead]

On the GM front, the type of motor makes the different most of the time. The 1/2 tons and SUV's have gotten those goofy AFM cylinder shut down motors in the interest of fuel economy. From reading around, they are notorious of oil consumption issues, needing internal work, etc. One of the reasons I picked the 2500 with the L96 6.0L. That motor is proven, reliable, long lasting one with an extensive track record. Most of who GM sells 2500 and larger pickups to is commercial. The build quality of the 2500 on up series is very noticeable compared to the 1500 series. I know I could never grow fond of the 2013 1500 I had. I invented new swear words over it. I finally dumped it and got the 2500. Night vs day difference. The 2500 is so much better in so many ways.

It is really too bad we can't spec and have built pickups like 2500 on up the same way we can order a commercial semi tractor. Spec the motor you want, tied to the transmission you want, and even the diff ratio you want. Spec everything right on down to the brand of hubs you have on the pickup. Then things might play out better. Right now, if we want one thing, we have to give up another. Or if we want something on the pickup, it only comes as part of a package and we get a stack of stuff we don't need or want.

 

[GManBart]

I bought my Tundra in 2007 after putting quite a bit of time into comparing Ford, GM and Dodge. I went with a Crew Max Limited 5.7L 4x4 with the TRD suspension package, and it's been absolutely flawless. I have a work car, so it doesn't get driven much...still under 65K, but I have only two very minor complaints. One, I wish they offered a 30+ gallon fuel tank, and the seatbelt retractors are a little bit weak. Now that I think of it, there is a third minor complaint...the center AC vent always seems to drift towards upwards over time. Seriously, that's the all I've come up with in over 7 years.

On the other hand, I have a 2014 F15 XL (Super Crew, 6.5' box, 4x4, 5.0L) truck for work and after 15K miles I'm starting to think it may have a transmission issue...a bit of a shudder under certain circumstances that seem odd. Other than that, I like it, but was surprised how low the towing limit is, even with the towing package.

The only thing that would make me sell my Tundra any time soon would be if they really come out with the diesel option (they say it's going to happen for 2016 using the same engine as the Titan), and gave it a towing limit in the 12-15K range.

 

[sdef]

The only thing that would make me sell my Tundra any time soon would be if they really come out with the diesel option (they say it's going to happen for 2016 using the same engine as the Titan), and gave it a towing limit in the 12-15K range.

I am waiting for both. But they would have to open up the option packages also, I imagine. Both Toyota and Nissan lock a buyer into just a couple of exclusive packages per model. I wish they would do more like what GM and Ford do with their a la carte options of major items.

 

[oldpilgrim]

I have to revise my earlier post about my Tundra being flawless.

Within a week of getting it, someone failed to yield and dented my front fender. Boy was I pizzed.

In Feb, during our wicked wicked snows someone snuck out from behind a huge snow bank and busted my grille.

Today, I got too close to the side of my open garage door and took off the right hand, heated, electric mirror. That's going to cost me.

My nephew said he'd trade me his old beat-up Chevy truck for it and said that if I had it, he'd bet I'd never put a nick in it.

 

[s219]

On the GM front, the type of motor makes the different most of the time. The 1/2 tons and SUV's have gotten those goofy AFM cylinder shut down motors in the interest of fuel economy. From reading around, they are notorious of oil consumption issues, needing internal work, etc. One of the reasons I picked the 2500 with the L96 6.0L. That motor is proven, reliable, long lasting one with an extensive track record. Most of who GM sells 2500 and larger pickups to is commercial. The build quality of the 2500 on up series is very noticeable compared to the 1500 series. I know I could never grow fond of the 2013 1500 I had. I invented new swear words over it. I finally dumped it and got the 2500. Night vs day difference. The 2500 is so much better in so many ways.

I think there were issues with the first generation of AFM engines, but the later ones have been fine. Granted, I only put 8000 miles on my 2014 Sierra 1500 when it came time for the first oil change, but it didn't consume a drop of oil in that time -- I would have been annoyed if it did, as none of my modern cars have ever needed oil between changes. So far AFM has been great, and surely contributes to the 19-20mpg I average in mixed driving and 22-23mpg I see on trips. The engine spends a lot of time loafing in 4-cyl mode when cruising.

The biggest difference between your 2013 and 2015 is that there was a significant model refresh in that time -- even a 2015 1500 model would be a night and day difference to your 2013. The previous generation was pretty mediocre in my opinion (I wouldn't have bought one). So whether it was a 1500 or 2500 is less of an impact now or then. I don't see any difference in build quality between 1500 and HD models nowadays; as of the 2014 refresh (HD models came a year later) they start with the same basic design, body, interior, etc -- all the stuff that the driver touches and perceives quality from. The real differences are deeper and below the skin -- frame, chassis, suspension, engine, trans, etc. The 1500 and HD models even share the same plants (last I knew, three plants were building GM trucks, one was 1500 only, one did 1500 and HD, and one did 1500 and overflow).

 

[Grateful11]

"The 1500 and HD models even share the same plants (last I knew, three plants were building GM trucks, one was 1500 only, one did 1500 and HD, and one did 1500 and overflow)."

When looking at various trucks recently and all the 1500 Chevy's were assembled in Mexico and the 2500's in the US. I've always been a big GM fan but a we just couldn't bring ourselves to pay $50K for a truck assembled in Mexico. We still have an '02 Chevy Tahoe Z71, great vehicle, 92K miles on it, built in Texas I think. We wouldn't trade it for a new one.

 

[sawtooth]

My 2007 Tundra with about a 9000lb load. No equalizer or sway bars and it tows like a dream, much better than the F250 diesel it replaced.

I find this hard to believe. Maybe just acceleration but when pulling a heavy load the weight of the tow vehicle plays a factor. With 3/4 ton trucks weighing roughly 2k more and offering heavier components all the way around its just not comparable. I have towed with several half tons (not Tundra though) and they can't touch either the chevy or Fords 3/4 ton offerings. Maybe your comparing a 15-30 year old 3/4 truck.


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[s219]

"The 1500 and HD models even share the same plants (last I knew, three plants were building GM trucks, one was 1500 only, one did 1500 and HD, and one did 1500 and overflow)."

When looking at various trucks recently and all the 1500 Chevy's were assembled in Mexico and the 2500's in the US. I've always been a big GM fan but a we just couldn't bring ourselves to pay $50K for a truck assembled in Mexico. We still have an '02 Chevy Tahoe Z71, great vehicle, 92K miles on it, built in Texas I think. We wouldn't trade it for a new one.

Only some of the 1500s are made in Mexico (mainly crew cabs from what I understand) -- others in Flint (standard cabs) and in the past Fort Wayne (extended cabs, not sure about now). I know there is a member here who works at a GM plant, and he probably knows the exact split. The thing with many of these big companies is that parts and assembly are multinational, so if you really are picky about what happens where, you might not ever buy a vehicle! Even Toyota has a plant in Mexico, and some of the Tundra assemblies come from Mexico (to tie back into the topic).

I'd certainly feel more patriotic if my Sierra was 100% American made, but it's a crew cab model and only parts/sub-assemblies were American while final assembly was in the Mexico plant. That said, the build quality is outstanding and I haven't had any issues in the first year of ownership.

 

[Copperhead]

My 1500 was assembled in Mexico. My 2500 was assembled in Ft. Wayne, IN ( other 2500 plant is in Flint, MI ). I liked the 2500 was assembled in Ft. Wayne only because I had a '98 2500 that also was done there and I really liked that pickup. I wasn't much concerned about my 1500 being assembled in Mexico. I long grew past that. When I ordered my 2013 Freightliner semi truck tractor, they were building in N.C and Mexico. The dealer didn't say anything, but later after it came in, he mentioned that they were keeping their fingers crossed it would be assembled in Mexico. That's right! Reason, they have more issue with trucks assembled in N.C. Well, true to form, it took the dealer 2 extra weeks to correct problems with my truck, and it was assembled in N.C. I have no clue if those guys at the plant were too concerned with going fishing, meeting at Hooters after work, or what, but they sure were not paying attention to their job. Missing brackets, extra parts for dealer final assembly all in disarray in the component box, etc.

I use my pickups to haul more than tow. And the 1500 just wasn't the ticket. The 2500 is vastly better, especially off road. But just in handling and overall experience, I much prefer the 2500 to the 1500. The 1500, to me, seemed like a car on steroids. Kinda like they had a 4 door El Camino in mind. That was the first 1/2 ton I had gotten since owning a '66 Chevy C-10 in the early 70's. I don't ever see a 1/2 ton in my future again.

Either way, the L96 6.0L in my 2500 has a long track record of being a reliable, strong, long lasting motor. Lots of internal design features that carried over from what GM learned in its racing side and Corvette side. The 2015 2500 6.0L totally blew the snot out of the 2015 Ram 2500 6.4L on the Ike Gauntlet test pull by almost a minute and a half up that mountain, and the 6.0 2500 had 300 more lb loaded on it (both were loaded to maximum GCWR). The Ram 6.4L had 60 more HP and 50 more lb of torque and an 8 speed. So it goes to show, that numbers on a glossy brochure don't always equate to real world performance.

 

[Eric102]

I find this hard to believe. Maybe just acceleration but when pulling a heavy load the weight of the tow vehicle plays a factor. With 3/4 ton trucks weighing roughly 2k more and offering heavier components all the way around its just not comparable. I have towed with several half tons (not Tundra though) and they can't touch either the chevy or Fords 3/4 ton offerings. Maybe your comparing a 15-30 year old 3/4 truck.

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Yep, it was an 88 4x4 HD F250 long bed diesel which I used for towing the boat up to the time I got the Tundra, so about 19 years old when I gladly retired it.

Definitely an apples to oranges comparison since the Ford was the HD version with 10 bolt hubs, big brakes and heavy suspension. That's why I was surprised by how well the Tundra did when I first got it. The Ford was always a white knuckles driving experience when towing on the freeways, passing semis would blow me all over the place where as the Tundra is rock solid even with the shorter wheelbase and bed. The diesel was badly underpowered also and combined with the 3 speed auto it was not happy going up any sort of incline with the 9000 lb boat. I think it had about 1/2 the torque, HP and gears the Tundra has.

And of course being a Ford, "Fix Or Replace Daily"

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think there were issues with the first generation of AFM engines, but the later ones have been fine. Granted, I only put 8000 miles on my 2014 Sierra 1500 when it came time for the first oil change, but it didn't consume a drop of oil in that time -- I would have been annoyed if it did, as none of my modern cars have ever needed oil between changes. So far AFM has been great, and surely contributes to the 19-20mpg I average in mixed driving and 22-23mpg I see on trips. The engine spends a lot of time loafing in 4-cyl mode when cruising. The biggest difference between your 2013 and 2015 is that there was a significant model refresh in that time -- even a 2015 1500 model would be a night and day difference to your 2013. The previous generation was pretty mediocre in my opinion (I wouldn't have bought one). So whether it was a 1500 or 2500 is less of an impact now or then. I don't see any difference in build quality between 1500 and HD models nowadays; as of the 2014 refresh (HD models came a year later) they start with the same basic design, body, interior, etc -- all the stuff that the driver touches and perceives quality from. The real differences are deeper and below the skin -- frame, chassis, suspension, engine, trans, etc. The 1500 and HD models even share the same plants (last I knew, three plants were building GM trucks, one was 1500 only, one did 1500 and HD, and one did 1500 and overflow).

We're having issues with 2014 trucks with 60,000 miles on the clock.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

I find this hard to believe. Maybe just acceleration but when pulling a heavy load the weight of the tow vehicle plays a factor. With 3/4 ton trucks weighing roughly 2k more and offering heavier components all the way around its just not comparable. I have towed with several half tons (not Tundra though) and they can't touch either the chevy or Fords 3/4 ton offerings. Maybe your comparing a 15-30 year old 3/4 truck. Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

I will put my 2012 EcoBoost against my old 99 F350 any day of the week in every way other than payload. That includes towing a 10,000# trailer, stopping that trailer, accelerating from 0 to 60 mph with that trailer, passing someone from 60 to say 75 mph, and over control and stability of the load.

Chris

 

[Rustyiron]

3 pages and still no "brand war's" :thumbsup:
Very nice read!!

 

[Fordman1981]

My 1500 was assembled in Mexico. My 2500 was assembled in Ft. Wayne, IN ( other 2500 plant is in Flint, MI ). I liked the 2500 was assembled in Ft. Wayne only because I had a '98 2500 that also was done there and I really liked that pickup. I wasn't much concerned about my 1500 being assembled in Mexico. I long grew past that. When I ordered my 2013 Freightliner semi truck tractor, they were building in N.C and Mexico. The dealer didn't say anything, but later after it came in, he mentioned that they were keeping their fingers crossed it would be assembled in Mexico. That's right! Reason, they have more issue with trucks assembled in N.C. Well, true to form, it took the dealer 2 extra weeks to correct problems with my truck, and it was assembled in N.C. I have no clue if those guys at the plant were too concerned with going fishing, meeting at Hooters after work, or what, but they sure were not paying attention to their job. Missing brackets, extra parts for dealer final assembly all in disarray in the component box, etc. I use my pickups to haul more than tow. And the 1500 just wasn't the ticket. The 2500 is vastly better, especially off road. But just in handling and overall experience, I much prefer the 2500 to the 1500. The 1500, to me, seemed like a car on steroids. Kinda like they had a 4 door El Camino in mind. That was the first 1/2 ton I had gotten since owning a '66 Chevy C-10 in the early 70's. I don't ever see a 1/2 ton in my future again. Either way, the L96 6.0L in my 2500 has a long track record of being a reliable, strong, long lasting motor. Lots of internal design features that carried over from what GM learned in its racing side and Corvette side. The 2015 2500 6.0L totally blew the snot out of the 2015 Ram 2500 6.4L on the Ike Gauntlet test pull by almost a minute and a half up that mountain, and the 6.0 2500 had 300 more lb loaded on it (both were loaded to maximum GCWR). The Ram 6.4L had 60 more HP and 50 more lb of torque and an 8 speed. So it goes to show, that numbers on a glossy brochure don't always equate to real world performance.

Just want to point out ram does not have an 8 speed in the HD trucks.

 

[TomSeller]

I will put my 2012 EcoBoost against my old 99 F350 any day of the week in every way other than payload. That includes towing a 10,000# trailer, stopping that trailer, accelerating from 0 to 60 mph with that trailer, passing someone from 60 to say 75 mph, and over control and stability of the load.

Chris

How about making it to 400K miles without significant mechanical issues? Just curious.

 

[TomSeller]

Yep, it was an 88 4x4 HD F250 long bed diesel which I used for towing the boat up to the time I got the Tundra, so about 19 years old when I gladly retired it.
Definitely an apples to oranges comparison since the Ford was the HD version with 10 bolt hubs, big brakes and heavy suspension.

Yes a 1988 of any brand would be apples to oranges to a new Tundra. Glad you like your new truck, they are nice.

 

[sixdogs]

How about making it to 400K miles without significant mechanical issues? Just curious.

I remember the olden days of the 1960's and '70's when people traded at 65,000 to 75,000 miles because that's when they started to fall apart. Few trucks ever reached 85,000 or so and if you said a truck--any truck--would last a few hundred thousand miles you would have been laughed out of the room.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I remember the olden days of the 1960's and '70's when people traded at 65,000 to 75,000 miles because that's when they started to fall apart. Few trucks ever reached 85,000 or so and if you said a truck--any truck--would last a few hundred thousand miles you would have been laughed out of the room.

I just bought a truck with 92K miles on it. Don't want to spend the coin on new. I really appreciate all the input from everyone on here that is buying new trucks and comparing them to different models. In 10 years when I buy one of them with 90K miles I'll know which one is better.lol

 

[Diamondpilot]

How about making it to 400K miles without significant mechanical issues? Just curious.

400K is a pipe dream for 99.9% of the vehicles on the road. Rust being the biggest killer.

I know 2 people with vehicles with over 250,000 miles and both are gas.

This was a selling point 25 years ago when gas motors made 100,000 miles on average but today 300,000 or more is reality.

Chris