Two specific questions on a Caroni TM1900 flail mower

[Z-Michigan]

Hello-

I have read various past threads on flail mowers, and I'm not sure these precise questions have come up.

I'm getting a Kioti DK40SE (which replaces a larger utility tractor I had before) and need a new mower (I had a 6' rotary cutter before and I am familiar with them). I had been looking mostly at a new 6' rotary cutter, but the flail is very appealing to me since it's shorter and doesn't throw rocks. The Caroni TM1900 from agri-supply is the only flail in a price range I'm really considering.

My major uses for the flail mower would be pasture mowing, property perimeter (tall grass, weeds, very little shrubs/brush), and possibly shredding hayfields if they get far too mature before being cut for hay. I am not really hard on a mower, but our property has a LOT of small rocks in the 1" to 5" range, which pop out of the ground every spring and are too numerous to pick them all up before mowing season.

So, here are my questions:
1) Will the Caroni flail be damaged from regularly hitting small 1-5" size rocks? I understand that the blades will get dinged up and eventually have to be replaced from such impacts. I am much more concerned with whether the rear roller is going to be damaged, because that is a far more expensive repair. All the rocks I would hit are fairly small and I shouldn't hit anything that's both big and firmly planted, but it will be unavoidable to hit 1-5" rocks up to several times an hour.

2) Does the Caroni flail have any driveline protection like a shear bolt or slip clutch? If not, can you really get away without having such protection?

Apart from those specific questions, is there any reason I shouldn't get the Caroni flail for my uses? A rotary cutter of the quality I want, equipped with a slip clutch and f/r safety chains, is looking to be within $100 of the flail mower. And the much shorter flail mower would make a lot of my mowing easier and let me store the whole thing inside the barn much more easily, which would be a huge plus.

 

[leonz]

1. the flail mower will not be damaged by small rocks or occasionally hitting
larger ones with the mower knives. The rotors are balanced for high speed
operation.

a. as long as you dont back into an immovable object you will not damage the rotor -no it cannot be used for a wheely caster!!!

2. NOPE no reason you cannot use it to mow everything including lawns.

Buying the TM1900FSC with the 112 grass knives will mow everything with no issues.

The mower knives have more total cutting edge surface than any brush mower or RFM and the full width of the mower is cutting at all times.

The TMF1900FSC has two manual mounting positions one and zero to allow offset mowing as well.


Having the P.T.O. shaft mounted spring powered slip clutch for the mower will save you a lot of aggravation and belt expense as a flail mower will suck up barbed wire or smooth wire like a RFM or vacuum cleaner "which in itself is minor issue" when owning a flail mower- all you have to do is unwind it from the rotor which is easier to do than with a RFM.




I disagree with Big Bri about the slip clutch as its simpler to let the clutch slip than burn belts in half. I would also suggest that you buy a spare set of Gates brand green V belts for the mower- they are designed for high shock load applications and will not be affected by aging or ozone as quickly as a standard V belt would be.

Fortunately for us all V belts like bearings are metric no no belt dressing that stuff is flammable and not healthy.


If you have this bad a rock problem you could ask about renting a rock picker with the rotating bar rake that clears rocks from sod; "Shulte" is one brand for example perhaps a neighbor could do a spring picking with it every other year, another option is this one;

Many folks have solid steel culvert pieces they place over the front and rear tires of tricycle tractors with loaded rears and roll thier hay ground every year. My neighbor did it this way to roll the rocks back in the ground as he did not own a mechanical rock picker.

Short of that buying a small width farm rated sod roller is an equal option and may cost less than the culvert and a tricycle tractor.


Mow slowly with it and you will be fine and be able to react quicker if a problem arises; also if you mow in a spiral pattern you will avoid constantly having to turn and stop and back up and you wil save on the brakes and you will save even more fuel as the flail mowwr does not consume a lot of power due to the rotors high speed while cutting.

You will find that there is much much less loading on the tractors power train and that adds up to big fuel savings.

I am lucky if I use 2 gallons of gasoline or less in our towed flail mower that is a 48 inch unit over 5 acres.



leonz

 

[Big Bri]

you won't need a slip clutch or sheer bolt as the belts would slip before you break any thing.

side note i own that flail and love it.

 

[unclesalty]

I also have this flail. I have about 3 dozen stumps that I mow over and they are slowly getting lower. I cant see any damage to the knives so far. Im sure I've run over some rocks as well, most are now too small to see...
If you call agri supply you'll get a better price for shipping and a free lift gate.
It will help if you have palet forks on your tractor as the flail comes on 2 palets nailed together and the driver will have a heck of a time getting the flail on the lift.
I love this mower, its quiet and the turn radius is great. The offset takes a little getting used to when it comes to fence lines and gates.
My biggest complaint is it is a pain to adjust the height. I have pasture for horses I cut tall and a lawn I cut short.

 

[leonz]

I also have this flail. I have about 3 dozen stumps that I mow over and they are slowly getting lower. I cant see any damage to the knives so far. Im sure I've run over some rocks as well, most are now too small to see...
If you call agri supply you'll get a better price for shipping and a free lift gate.
It will help if you have palet forks on your tractor as the flail comes on 2 palets nailed together and the driver will have a heck of a time getting the flail on the lift.
I love this mower, its quiet and the turn radius is great. The offset takes a little getting used to when it comes to fence lines and gates.
My biggest complaint is it is a pain to adjust the height. I have pasture for horses I cut tall and a lawn I cut short.

Do you have needle valve for the hydraulics on the three point hitch under the seat? You can close the flow control valve valve when you have the mower raised a bit and put some hardwood blocking under the sides of the mower to support it when you change the rear roller setting.

leonz

 

[Z-Michigan]

Glad I posted - lots of useful info, thanks.

Leonz, would I have to shorten or replace the PTO shaft in order to add a slip clutch?

Also - yes our ground is very rocky, but with a lot of hand picking it gets less-bad every year, and the surface eventually becomes mostly rock free as long as we keep it in a continuing hay crop. The big roller would work but is overkill for our uses and just causes the rock problem to continue (if we had 20+ hay acres manual picking wouldn't really be an option). Not sure which kind of rock rake you're suggesting, but a power rake would destroy the hay crop and we would have to start over. The farm style rock pickers aren't common around here - by luck we have by far the rockiest soil for several miles around, as told to me by a farmer down the road who's been farming the area for about 50 years and has farmed our land in the past.

 

[SteveJ]

If you are looking for a smaller, inexpensive flail mower, I have a used one I bought two years ago and have never used. We ended up with a 62" JD ZTR and just have not gotten around to taking the backhoe off to mount the flail mower. For the $300 I spent, I almost hate to sell it, but it is taking space and I don't really need it. It is only about a 42" flail mower, and I suspect it is a Mott mower, but that is just a guess. It appears usable, but some of the knives are broken and would need replacing. They probably all need sharpening. With a Kubota B6100, this was just a nice size/weight for my tractor. Larger could have been a problem. I fell in love with flail mowers when I used them at a state park in the 70's. We could hit glass bottles and more often than not, is did not break the bottle. If it did, nothing flew more than a few inches. When mowing around campers and picnickers, this was a very nice feature. I know you have a specific mower in mind, but this would give you a chance to try out a flail more before you spend a lot of money. I'll loan it to you for free, or sell it to you for $300. Just let me know. juterbok@yahoo.com

 

[leonz]

No you would not have to do that if you buy the right length limited slip clutch PTO shaft from agrisupply if and when you buy.

Just be sure to tell them what tractor you have and the amount of hieght above the ground you have with the three point hitch fully elevated at the lower linkage arms-be sure to use the chains if you have them to eliminate swaying.

Measure the distance from the groove of the stub shaft to the lower linkage arms when the hitch is fully raised and lowered and write it down to tell them
-believe me it matters as you can and will bend a PTO shaft if its too long.


About the rocks: please send an email and I can go into greater detail to resolve this issue with little work and economically for you.



FYI: the large rotary sweeper bar rock pickers are adjustable so they can simply skim the sod and not damage it.- the rocks are usually moved enough when they skim the sod that they pop out.



lzaharis@lightlink.com

 

[Z-Michigan]

Leonz - thanks for your help and suggestions.

Stevej - appreciate the offer but unless you're in mid-Michigan it probably doesn't make sense to try to borrow. If you are in mid-Michigan please send me a PM.

Anyone else - well it sure sounds like there's no reason I shouldn't buy a Caroni flail mower for my uses. Anything to say to stop me from doing so?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Well I bought the Caroni TM1900 and it arrived today. Many thanks Leonz for all the info, and many thanks unclesalty for saving me money on shipping.

I put it together, checked various things, and did a bit of mowing. So far it's great. I still need to adjust height (roller and skids) to a higher setting, which looks like a bit of a project. As I posted in another thread, the quality seems very good, in line with expectations.

The poorly-translated owner's manual is almost laughably bad. I'm thankful for all the helpful posts on here (Leonz and IslandTractor seem to be the most prolific on the Caroni) which are very helpful and clarify many things that the manual doesn't. I think we should almost consider writing a collaborate owner's manual or at least supplement given how little is said in the printed manual provided.

I do have a few more questions for anyone familiar:

1) Is there a trick to removing the belt cover? The bolts holding it in place seem incredibly tight, making me wonder if they aren't intended to be removed and something else allows access.

2) What is the preference between using the circular hole for the toplink or using the channel area that allows it to move around a bit?

3) Is the drain plug for the gearbox oil the large bolt that's low and centered on the side opposite the output shaft (the one that goes from gearbox to belts), or is it somewhere else?

4) The PTO shaft supplied seems to be long for use with a Cat 1 hitch. The owner's manual seems to say that there must be 6" (150mm) of compression available in the shaft, and also says never, ever to shorten the shaft. I seem to have only about 2" of compression available when the mower is at ground level, although more than that when it's raised. I do not see any reason that any significant compression is needed to be available as long as the mower can't any closer to the tractor (lower links would stop that!) and the shaft doesn't bind anywhere in its travel from lowest to highest (travel) settings. Can I just leave the PTO shaft as it is now?

 

[john4153]

Both the FSC and BSC were mentioned. Which did you end up getting? Why?

John

 

[MichiganIron]

The manual may be mis-leading. The length of PTO Shaft should be properly set for the tractor to assure there is proper minimum overlap at full extension, and does not bind during it's full travel distance. A binding shaft can do considerable damage to the implement and/or the tractor. There is a procedure for determining the length of the shaft and how to properly cut the shaft. If it isn't in your manual, send us a message or give me a call. We can go through it with you.

 

[leonz]

Caroni mower

Well I bought the Caroni TM1900 and it arrived today. Many thanks Leonz for all the info, and many thanks unclesalty for saving me money on shipping.

I put it together, checked various things, and did a bit of mowing. So far it's great. I still need to adjust height (roller and skids) to a higher setting, which looks like a bit of a project. As I posted in another thread, the quality seems very good, in line with expectations.

Higher as in higher grass mowing height? the skids are a second line of defense for the grass knives and rotor
and allow ito to rest relatively level when parked and disconnected.

The poorly-translated owner's manual is almost laughably bad. I'm thankful for all the helpful posts on here (Leonz and IslandTractor seem to be the most prolific on the Caroni) which are very helpful and clarify many things that the manual doesn't. I think we should almost consider writing a collaborate owner's manual or at least supplement given how little is said in the printed manual provided.

Buy an italian to english pocket dictionary and you will be fine-remember the english language is the most difficult to learn and translate in most languages.


I do have a few more questions for anyone familiar:

1) Is there a trick to removing the belt cover? The bolts holding it in place seem incredibly tight, making me wonder if they aren't intended to be removed and something else allows access.
there are bearings with grease filttings under the belt cover

FYI-they mention the distance between the three point mount and the gearbox stub shaft for one reason its also
designed to be front mounted on a tractor with a reduction gearbox up front or a propeller shaft under the tractor coming from the rear 540 PTO with a one to one to one spure gear box off the rear to the propeller shaft under the mower for mowing which uses another universal joint upo front to meet the gearbox stub shaft or is driven off the flywheel of the engine with a separate reduction gearing.




Please Please Please Please tell me you greased the mower main bearings before you used it :thumbsup:


abou the belt cover:
It was probably impacted on- use only a 3/8 breaker bar and metric socket to remove the cover-you should have plenty of clearance for a socket with out an extension.

You have grease fittings under the belt cover that need grease occasionally so thats a must do thing- eventually you could buy a few metric grade five allen bolts with the drilled heads for mechanics wire and allen lock washers for mechanics wire wire to secure the bolts together to avoid them becoming loose if you like.

a set of metric ratchet wrenches will become your friend especially when changing knives as it is time consuming with those hangers.



2) What is the preference between using the circular hole for the toplink or using the channel area that allows it to move around a bit?

the slot lets it fall back a bit and reduces gouging and scalping to a minimum
as the mower should tilt back towards the roller a bit while mowing (unless you have a flail mower with a full width anti scalp roller in front which some manufacturers off as an option for turf

3) Is the drain plug for the gearbox oil the large bolt that's low and centered on the side opposite the output shaft (the one that goes from gearbox to belts), or is it somewhere else?

the mower manual should point that out directly in the diagrams or you can call agris supply on sunday/monday- one of TM1900 owners on the board here will know fro sure and post it for you.

You will have a bubbling oil issue and may want the longer dip stick option
or do what Island tractor did with his gear box


4) The PTO shaft supplied seems to be long for use with a Cat 1 hitch. The owner's manual seems to say that there must be 6" (150mm) of compression available in the shaft, and also says never, ever to shorten the shaft. I seem to have only about 2" of compression available when the mower is at ground level, although more than that when it's raised. I do not see any reason that any significant compression is needed to be available as long as the mower can't any closer to the tractor (lower links would stop that!) and the shaft doesn't bind anywhere in its travel from lowest to highest (travel) settings. Can I just leave the PTO shaft as it is now?

As long as it is in line and working its fine- and the 2 inches of tube is fine as long as the mower can move up and down safely with no binding- which you would see and hear quickly.

These mowers are used with much taller tractors used for turf mowing and larger turf tires and thats why they mention it in the manual.

You would have destroyed the PTO shaft it the minute you started the mower-just be doubly sure the lower links are the same length if you have the right lower link with the crank adjuster.

time to go to work- whoopsie

 

[IslandTractor]

I run a TM1900 with a DK40se so if you need specific measurements on the PTO shaft let me know and I will measure mine. I have had no issues. I did not set it up myself as Rick Wallace did it for me before delivering the tractor so I don't know if they trimmed the PTO shaft or not.

 

[Bigturk]

Hi all,

I would like to purchase a Caroni TM 1900.

Any idea where I could purchase one in Eastern Canada?

Thanks

 

[IslandTractor]

Call AgriSupply and see if they can do it.

 

[leonz]

Yup,

How far are you from Pugwash, N.S?


I second what Island tractor has said on that, and "their" meaning Agrisupplys import agent
should have no issues with exporting it to you as NAFTA, as much as I hate it eliminates all
the crap about fees between the northern territories and the Carolinas.


The crate would be separated from an incoming shipment
and shipped to you if any of their stores are unable to sell
one to you immediately and ship it.


An option would be to call and find out if they have a TM1900
within thier system and have it shipped by rail via
AMTRAK to CP/freight passenger service via Norfolk Southern
and CP or CN via the passenger/mail service trains if possible
as the distance is over 500 miles to a rail freight terminal that
is near you.

If you have time for adventure perhaps a trip south by plane and then north by
rail is an option and you could arrange to have the mower loaded
on the baggage car as you would be paying for its cartage to home.

leonz:thumbsup::drool:

 

[Z-Michigan]

I was looking for the belt part # and came across my own thread here. Seems like a good time for an update. I've used the mower for two seasons (getting it ready for this one). Overall I'm very happy with it. I did manage to shred the belts late last fall, but it was probably from running over some metal wire that got completely tangled around the drum, can't really blame the mower design for that. On the whole I like the flail a lot better than the LX6 rotary cutter I had before it. Mostly because it's much more compact, doesn't scalp as much, and doesn't throw rocks anywhere near as much or as far. (It still can throw rocks, however, so be safe in terms of distances from people or pets.) Do yourself a favor and don't run over any wire or rope, it's a real pain to remove from the mower drum.

 

[IslandTractor]

Besides trying to avoid wire and rope, I suggest avoiding hose too. I snagged a hidden garden hose stretching across the area I was mowing. I didn't know I had snagged it and was stunned to see the longest snake I had ever seen was rushing towards me and under the tractor. I was flabbergasted until the tractor stalled and I saw that the "snake" was a garden hose. Got a good fifty feet (big snake!!) wrapped up before it stalled. Luckily I had a pair of sheet metal snips in my tool box so it only took ten minutes or so to remove the hose carcass. Amazing how quickly that flail will wrap up anything flexible.