Underground propane tank

[reb]

I am looking into purchasing my own propane tank. Has anyone had any experience with underground propane tanks?

 

[GerardC]

Yes. That is what we had installed (500 gallon) when we bought our land and COULDN'T BE HAPPIER! The filler area that comes out of the ground is about the size of a basketball. Very clean/neat looking. Hope this helps.

 

[JerryG]

All nine of mine are above ground. I don't think that there are any below ground tanks in this area.

 

[BigAl]

I think I would think twice about that . Propane settles in low spots if if leaks . Since it is already a underground tank it looks to me like a accident waiting to happen .No way I would ever do this . You might want to check with your local Fire Department about this .
Allen

 

[Junkman]

Buried propane tanks have been around for a very long time. They are specially manufactured for this purpose and leaks are not a problem. True that propane does fall, but if the tank is buried, then where are the voids for the "leaks" to fill? The only downside to a buried propane tank is the cost. As a homeowner, you might be allowed to dig the hole, but that is about all you will be allowed to do. The propane company that is going to sell the tank, will also want to be responsible for the installation, and will not allow you to have much more to do with the installation, since they have to certify to the fire department that it has been properly installed. That translates to you can stand around and watch, but they will be doing all the work. That would be fine with me, since I wouldn't want to be responsible if something was done wrong. Once again, this is time to let the professionals do the job, while you take the pictures. Also shop for the best price on the tank and also get a firm quote on the cost of filling the tank. Around here, they try to tie you into a fill contract if they install the tank. If you use enough, they will even install it for free with you paying for the fuel over the next 5 years. Then the tank will belong to you. Personally, I prefer to own from the beginning so I can pick and choose who I want to fill the tank based on price. I am presently purchasing propane at 20 cents over the Selkirk price. Best deal that I could get, but I have heard of others that are better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> Personally, I prefer to own from the beginning so I can pick and choose who I want to fill the tank based on price. </font>

This is excellent advice. Around here, you can get an underground tank supplied essentially for free, although you have to pay for the hole to be dug and refilled, unless you have your own backhoe. However, the catch is that they retain ownership of the tank. What that means is, no one else but the gas company that supplied the tank can fill it. It's a state law in Florida, and most likely everywhere else, that no gas company can refill another company's tanks. You can understand why; if you don't pay your bill, they don't want you to have an easy way to get gas somewhere else.

If you own your own tank, as was said above, you can get gas from anyone, and can shop for the best price. However, there may be a downside to that -- unless you have a contract with the gas company, they may not give you as reliable service as they do for people who are tied to them.

If you do end up owning your tank and shop around for gas, be sure to get a bill of sale for the tank, and keep a copy handy, to prove your ownership.

Don't worry about the tank underground -- it's done all the time and is safer than a tank above ground.

 

[ByronBob]

Mine is above ground and my brothers is below. Below you are given a solid piece of metal (aluminum?) as an anode to prevent corrosion or act as a ground.
I prefer to have mine above ground so I can SEE any issues if it happends. I plan to put fencing up around it and add bushes to make it more appealing. But as others say, don't worry about it. If you want to bury it go ahead.

 

[millsnhills]

We just finished building a home last year and I purchase a 500 Gallon tank. While we only use it for the grill, hot water heater and gas logs the first fill lasted us for 8 1/2 months.

Owning your own tank around here also saves you a minimum of 25Cents per gallon. We called all suppliers before our first fill up and again on our last delivery which we did not fill up. If you figure 25Cents on the gallon it does not take long for it to pay for itself.

 

[BigAl]

I agree ,Junkman that the above ground tanks are not that nice to look at . I still would be very interested to know how the local Fire Department would feel about it . I would not want to be a fireman fighting a house fire and unknowly standing on top of one of these . I am going to ask the local fire chief in our area for his input . In our area ,even underground home heating oil tanks are now frowned apon .
Allen

 

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( .............In our area ,even underground home heating oil tanks are now frowned apon .
Allen )</font>

For what reason? I have never heard of a underground home heating oil tank ever exploding. I believe that this is near impossible since heating oil has no fumes to ignite and the oil needs to be atomized before it will burn. Put some diesel into a pan and try to ignite it with a match. It can't be done!

 

[OkeeDon]

If an above-ground tank leaks, the heavier-than-air propane settles to the ground and spreads. If a below-ground tank leaks, it can eventually migrate through the ground, if the ground is porous enough, but it won't be combustible unless it somehow is exposed to outside air. Propane needs approximately 90% to 98% air in the mixture to ignite.

The only way it could be exposed to the air is to migrate to a lower, exposed area. Once in the air, if it is open, it usually dissipates to a non-combustible level within 10 feet.

The only problem I have ever heard from an underground tank occurred here in Florida, and was diagnosed by a close friend of mine, who is a state LP Gas inspector and safety expert. An underground tank leaked a substantial amount of gas, which migrated through Florida's sandy soil, along an underground pipe line, through a crack in a concrete foundation, to a basement room lower than the bottom of the tank. Eventually, because the room was closed, it built up to a combustible level of between 2% and 10% gas. Then, someone flipped a light switch or created some other form of combustion, and...Floomph!

The only time propane is really dangerous is when it's allowed to concentrate to a combustible level in a closed area. Out in the open, it can be scary, but manageable. It does not "blow up"; it just burns real fast (like instantly), which can cause air pressure damage in a closed area.

Firemen are trained to look for the fill dome of an underground tank; it's doubtful they would be on top of one without knowing. It would be nearly impossible for a house fire to affect an underground tank, even if it was leaking.

I used to hold the highest class LP Gas license for the state of Florida, until I retired a couple of years ago and let it expire.

 

[BigAl]

Thanks Don ,
In our area ,which is very remote, I don't think our volunteer's get much training . It is sort of like the good old days where everyone joined in to help . Maybe not the best idea, but we are all very close, in this town to each other and are always there to help each other . The good news is we did save 6 "concrete foundations" from burning down with the houses this pass year /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif! Just kidding !!! Thanks for the information .
Allen

 

[steveinmo]

When we had our in-ground tank installed last fall they warned us to keep it full or it could float out of the ground in the spring rains.

But I see you live in Arizona! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Not to worry.

Steve

 

[reb]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I am looking to replace a leased tank with my own because the gas company I am dealing with is not reliable here in the winter. They have a high turnover in drivers and the new drivers are usually afraid of the 35-mile mountain drive in foul weather. I nearly ran out last winter because of that. My intent is to own my tank, with enough capacity to last me through the winter--I used about 200 gallons last year.

I am a confirmed do-it-yourselfer, but grudgingly accept the fact that I will have to stand by as it is installed. The big problem right now is finding a source. The suppliers in the area that I have talked to are reluctant to sell any tanks. The lease fees are apparently too lucrative.

Steveinmo--That's one advantage to living in a desert!

 

[Highbeam]

I would guess that underground oil tanks are frowned upon because of leaks contaminating the ground/groundwater not because of any fire danger.

 

[Egon]

Many times combustible vapour clouds heavier than air are lit before the cloud can move and become very dangerous from both oxygen deprivation or finding an unwanted source of ignition.

If a propane is jetting liquid and a torch fire is going on cooling is a big factor. If the tank is involved in a conflagration there may be the word Blevy mentioned and it may be prudent to observe from some great distance like a mile or so. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Or so I have been told.

Egon

 

[thcri]

If your going to buy you own tank?? Then call all of the suppliers in your area and ask them if they will fill your own underground tank. Some suppliers will only fill their own tanks. Insurance reasons. And you can get the LP at a cheaper rate if you have your own tank, at least in this area. But five years ago some of the suppliers around here stopped filling other peoples tank, this has since changed and they went back to filling the ones that are owned by the homeowner but not others that are leased. And also at one time the underground ones were not allowed in our area but this has changed also.

murph

 

[Junkman]

To change this question slightly, I have a propane tank on the property that has been abandoned by the company that installed it. The original company has been sold a few times and whenever I asked them to remove it, they did nothing. The company that I presently use has offered to fill it if I wanted, but it hasn't been used in about 10 years. It isn't rusted or damaged in any way. What is the advisability of this?
Forgot to mention, this tank is about 10' long and 4 1/2' in diameter. I believe that it is 500 gallons.