Unhooking pto with engine off?

[Elcid76]

Over 20 years ago I got trapped in a bailer discharge chute on a 105 degree kansas day. As I stood there trying to figure out HOW to get the chute off my forearm, I remember thinking that it sure would be a lot less stressful if I had shut that darned tractor off (a green-acres vintage Allis) before getting "attached" to the assembly.
The "deal" I made with myself that day was to ALWAYS shut the tractor off when getting near the PTO. A simple rule. It works for me. Remember, safety can be thought of as the reduction of "ingredients" that may add together to make a result more painful. It is all a personal choice, I have made mine. The key is always off when I touch the PTO.

 

[90cummins]

My Ford 1720 PTO is engaged mechanical by the operator and the possibility of it engaging is the same as it slipping into a forward gear while with no one is in the operator痴 seat. It's also unlikely to intentionally engage the PTO without depressing the clutch due to grinding of the slip collar.
My neighbors Kubota on the other hand is electrically operated, that I don't trust running!!

Tim

 

[Soundguy]

Over 20 years ago I got trapped in a bailer discharge chute on a 105 degree kansas day. .

working on 'powered' equipment is dangerous... i don't think anyone here is advocating that.

trying to clear a blockage on a running grain auger or bailer while it is running , using a body part, well.. is dangerous. I don't think you will get any argument there as to sticking hands into running equipment.

soundguy

 

[foggy1111]

working on 'powered' equipment is dangerous... i don't think anyone here is advocating that.

trying to clear a blockage on a running grain auger or bailer while it is running , using a body part, well.. is dangerous. I don't think you will get any argument there as to sticking hands into running equipment.

soundguy

I've been sorta following this thread from time to time....and the one I originally started on hooking up a PTO with the engine running.

Soundguy.....You say you have no dog in this hunt....but you continue to debate the merits of hooking up equipment with the Engine running....and advise that you can do so safely. BUT TO ME....YOU IMPLY THAT OTHERS CAN DO IT SAFELY TOO IF THEY FOLLOW YOUR SOUND ADVICE. After all.....you are a long-time "epic" contributor. You should know.....right? I mean lots of people trust your advice....and you post allot. Right?

HOWEVER....not everyone here has your background or equipment models. For many folks with late-model, electric-switched PTO's (a high percentage of folks coming here for advice)....coupling a PTO is more dangerous due to the kind of equipment which THEY may have.

Also, some of these new operators are much better off to err on the side of caution. It's not always about YOU or YOUR equipment. Get it?

 

[Soundguy]

I've been sorta following this thread from time to time....and the one I originally started on hooking up a PTO with the engine running. ?

No.. apparrently you HAVE NOT been following it.

Soundguy.....You say you have no dog in this hunt....but you continue to debate the merits of hooking up equipment with the PTO running?

NOOOO! I have not in any way said to hookup equipment with the PTO RUNNING.

NEVER SAID to touch a spinning shaft.

....and advise that you can do so safely. BUT TO ME....YOU IMPLY THAT OTHERS CAN DO IT SAFELY TOO IF THEY FOLLOW YOUR SOUND ADVICE. After all.....you are a long-time "epic" contributor. You should know.....right? I mean lots of people trust your advice....and you post allot. Right?

......... Get it?

You need to quit worrying about my stats and start worrying about reading closer!!

soundguy

 

[Short Game]

I became a short-haired old hippie about the third time I got my braids in a drill or angle grinder, thankful to not have been seriously injured. Rotating machinery is a potential hazard.

Like I said on the previous thread, I will trust a PTO that must be clutched and manually shifted in to stay disengaged. I will not trust two wires to not find an alternate current path.

 

[foggy1111]

OK....I meant to say with the Engine running. Not the PTO running. My mistake.

However your stats are my point. People follow advice of long-time posters....and I feel you have a responsibility to post sound advice.

For not having a dog in this hunt.....I think you may have dispensed more posts on this issue than any other. :confused2:

Just like our last "debate" where you took a position that ethylene glycol is good to use for tire ballast. And, defended it to the end. Geeesh. :confused2:

 

[Soundguy]

it is a good tire ballast.

non corrosice, adds weight, won't freeze.

just don't drink it.

As fort he pto deal. like many other posters in this thread. we are just relating what 'WE' do.

I don't expect ANYONE to be a clone of me.. nor do i think they SHOULD be a clone of me.. everyone is an individual. JHTfarmer is the one that wants people to be a clone of him and think the way he thinks and do what he does.

I'm all for individual choice.

do what you feel ok doing, just be aware of the risks. IE.. Informed decisions.

that's 'sound' advice.

my no dog/hunt comment means I don't *care* what other people do. I'm not trying to convince someone to hook it up *my* way.. or *NOT* hook it up my way... I can assure you i have probably 'dispensed' WAY more posts on WAY more topics besdies this one...

if any of them bother you.. add me to your ignore list... that's the simple answer if my point of view is anti to your being.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

OK....I meant to say with the Engine running. Not the PTO running. My mistake.

And that's a HUGE difference...


soundguy

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd written earlier...if you get into a habit of shutting the engine down and hooking or unhooking a PTO shaft...then it won't matter if it's a mechanical or electrical engagement. Mine is mechanical, BTW.
You guys do it however you want...and, if the worst happens, we'll change your screen name to "Stubby".

 

[grsthegreat]

Funny thing is i usually hook up the pto with the engine running, as i use engine power to raise & lower impliment (have lever at rear of cab tractor). BUT i turn off the tractor to unhook.
I guess cause i can unhook the pto and lower the tool without the tractor running. No other reason.
Im sure its safer overall to shut it off both times, but im constantly fussing raising, lowering moving it during hookup.

 

[Soundguy]

Yawn... i'm gonna go get greasy and put the timing cover, crank pulley, cranksahft seal and governor back on my farmall C..

soundguy

 

[Short Game]

here's how 'bad' HF tools are:

this is the remnant of the cast iron ( good quality 50's cast iron.. american made ) pulley and hub on my farmall C

That is a harbor freight bearing splitter.. cost 7.99$ pitsburgh brand or something like that. ..

i used a 16 ton bottle jack, 1/2" bolts and a flat plate as a puller..

hub broke.. NOT thge hf puller.. which is in a-1 condition.

soundguy

Yawn... i'm gonna go get greasy and put the timing cover, crank pulley, cranksahft seal and governor back on my farmall C..

soundguy

So, how did you get that piece loose?

 

[Soundguy]

So, how did you get that piece loose?

took a die grinder and split it on 2 sides, at least the 2 external sides I could get to. there was still 1.5" of it burried inthe timing cover I could not cut.. then used a cold chissle to split it wider a bit. which loosend the grip on the crnk snout, then a bearing splitter puller slid it off actually pretty easilly, and that actually split it in 2, when it pulled..

used a backing palte and gr8 bolt and a 3/4 gun to pull on the new crank pulley afer cleaning up the cover and governor inards.. got the gov and top and bottom water ports on, and fan hub, then seperated the front pedistal into 2 pieces so i could manhandle it a bit easier, get them both back on.. so tractor is setting on 4 patches of rubber as of about 7:15pm last night.

soundguy

 

[koopster]

Farmer, yes, a lot of photos can be had for everyone to look at but until they have it in front of them they will never know. Took care of a 6 year old who was riding on the fender of a farmer's tricycle style Farmall while her father was bush hogging. The tricyle front end hit a hole which bounced the front end up, her off, and before the father could stop she went under the mower...

Ever run over a loose log or stump and have it kind of bounce around as the mower shudders..............that is how the noise was described to me by the girls grandfather who was nearby.

I spend my entire childhood on the fenders of tractors, feet locked in somewhere, hanging on with one hand to the arm rest, the other keeping balance, as my own father and grandfather would mow, tedder, or bale hay, chop, run the loader, spread manure, whatever was the chore I was there- best times of my life. I am sure it was for this family, too. I am not sure if the odds of falling under a bush hog match the odds of lightning or ????? but I can tell you the odds ended up pretty high for having to return to that same farm a few weeks later to get the dad---just couldn't take it.

I know this forum thread could go on for ever. Long story short, there is a risk to everything we do. Just be careful out there.

 

[DiskDoctr]

My Mahindra has an electrical solenoid for the hydraulic PTO. It has both a push button AND a selector switch for Live, Off, and Clutched (forget the actual wording, but that is what it means)

I am adamant about the selector switch being off in addition to the on/off when the PTO is not being run.

When hooking and unhooking, I have both the on/off and the selector switch turned off, but the tractor is turned on.

FWIW, I also have a PTO overrun clutch, so I can turn the tractor side of the PTO backwards to align the splines.

As for the differences of opinion, I believe both the risks and cautions have been pointed out. It's up to the individual whether he wants to take the risk or not. Shoot, how much risk is there in pulling the rear end out of a tractor- both physical and $$? But some of us do it and others ask how.

I don't always agree with the advice given or someone else's way of doing things, but one thing that is almost always a constant here on TBN is folks are very good about pointing out risks, tips and safety issues. Personal character attacks are, thankfully, rare and should continue to be avoided.

Now...if I wanted to hook up my shaft while the PTO is *running* where do I connect my head-mounted timing light?

- JC

 

[bigbull338]

yesterday we backed the tractor in to put the small grass seeder on it.an we killed the tractor since we was doing a few other things.so it wasnt running while we hooked up.

 

[VinnieNC]

The following event happend a few weeks ago, probably around the time this thread was started. I used to hook up PTO's with the engine running or not running, whatever the current condition was when I was ready to connect the shaft, but not after witnessing this:

My brother and I both own JD 5310 tractors. Mine is 2wd and his is 4wd with shuttle shift and FEL. The PTO seems to operate the same for both tractors.

We were using his tractor to clean up some debris from Hurricane Irene, mainly the FEL. The bush hog was mounted with the PTO shaft hooked up. We were only using the bush hog for ballast weight, not engaged all day. The tractor was in Park, engine idling and we were rigging a fallen tree to the FEL to be carried away. No one was in the seat. We had been using the tractor for probably 6-7 hours that day, when we heard a "thud" or "bump" type sound.

Next, we noticed the bush hog blades were turning, and it appeared that the PTO was engaged. The PTO lever on this tractor is a rather long, mechanical lever that pivots from approximately 12:00 position to the 3:00 to engage. The lever was in the OFF position, but the PTO shaft was turning as if the PTO was ON.

My brother moved the lever to the ON position and back to the Off position, but the shaft continued to turn, along with the bush hog blades. We turned off the engine, and cranked it back up, PTO was stuck engaged! The only difference in moving the lever is that the dash light came on when the lever was in the ON position, no change to the spinning shaft.

We turned off the engine and disconnected the PTO shaft from the Bush Hog and finished up the work. We checked the linkage from the lever to the side of the transmission and all looked ok, nothing bent, no missing bolts or cotter pins, etc.

He took the tractor to the dealer for diagnosis. The JD dealer seemed to be baffled and said all seemed fine with the linkage, but the tractor would have to be split to investigate the clutch. I have not seen it personally, but apparently the clutch(es) for this tractor is a component type deal, where both the PTO clutch and Transmission clutch are housed together and replaced as a unit.

According to the dealer, his PTO clutch suddenly became "engaged" because of a spring that had dislodged within the clutch mechanism, non-repairable, only replaceable as a unit. Apparently, someone somewhere rebuilds them, because they installed a 'reman" unit and took his old one as a core.

The first thing that went through my head when this happened was, "I could have had both hands on the yoke collar hooking or un-hooking the Bush hog when it "engaged".

I have never heard of this happening, but I noted that one other poster mentioned it earlier.

I have always respected the power and danger factor of a spinning PTO shaft and of course I have heard the horror stories, but now I have a new awareness of the potential danger in hooking up with the engine running.

-VinnieNC

 

[DiskDoctr]

According to the dealer, his PTO clutch suddenly became "engaged" because of a spring that had dislodged within the clutch mechanism, non-repairable, only replaceable as a unit. Apparently, someone somewhere rebuilds them, because they installed a 'reman" unit and took his old one as a core.

Wow. Sounds like the makings of a major lawsuit/recall due to a significant design flaw and safety issue.

Fingers out of small places, thumbs to the outside and avoid pinch points.

But still, the odds of the pto engaging during the 20 sec when your hands are on the head of the shaft....it's quite a bit different than, say, working on a piece of 3pt equip while it is hooked up and the engine is running. Now THAT is something I would not do. I've inspected like that, but stay clear of the [insert mauling device here]

 

[Soundguy]

i've heard of clutches piling up before. that's just plain bad luck..

soundguy