Unsafe generator wiring et al.

[WranglerX]

Personally it would bother me to see on his epitaph, "He Knew Exactly What He Was Doing"...

 

[grsthegreat]

Tell me you have never made a mistake when your exhausted after 12 hour day. When there is a major power outage here in PNW, Those guys never sleep. Accidents happen.

 

[Sportsman762]

While I understand your concern, the way it was explained to me by a lineman was this: As long as the linemen are following protocol and doing their job accordingly they should be fine, also if for some reason your generator were to try and charge back the grid the demand on it would be so heavy (picture trying to power a village with a 5k or 8k generator) that it would immediately trip the breaker on the machine.
I'm not condoning the practice.

Lineman are human and make mistakes, a backfeeding generator can kill them if they screw up. Yes, they should have the line grounded or covered up when working near them. However how many days has that lineman been working straight. It significantly increases the chance of them making an error. The major concern is going from phase to ground with the lineman as the conductor. A 5K generator can kill a person damn quick. Remember transformers go both directions. A little 220V generator is could be putting 7,200V or more into the line. Yes, if you throw the line fuse in and bring a line back in power it will kill a small generator quick. They get overloaded and just bog down and die, if you don't energize the line first. Makes for a heck of a flash when you throw the fuse back in.

Tell me you have never made a mistake when your exhausted after 12 hour day. When there is a major power outage here in PNW, Those guys never sleep. Accidents happen.

During Major Storm Damage linemen work 16 hour days. That 8 hours is left for them to grab a bite to eat, drive home, sleep and drive back. Makes a for some dang long days.

Are linemen required to hang grounds before working on downed lines?

They are supposed to ground them, or run coverups and full gear as if they were energized. But accidents happen. A crew might throw ground chains on a line but they do not realize that there is a break in the line that prevents the ground chains from working and a backfeeding generator energizes the line on the broken end. The lineman fails to check for power before going up and gets hit. Thats how fatalities happen. One step missed and a death. Its hoped that the linemen check before and figure out that there is a backfeeding generator. Normally they will then have to spend a fair amount of time trying to find the generator. If they cannot disconnect it they will just pull the service fuse and fix the line. Somehow it seems that they forget to mention that they pulled the fuse. Once the idiot realizes that everyone else has power they call theirs in. However since it is a single customer out they will be at the very bottom of the list. If your stupid enough to not hook up a generator correctly you might be out of power longer.

 

[zzvyb6]

I had an underground (4800V) feed line from a pole transformer to my on-ground house reduction transformer blow out last year. While DTE was here to repair the line, I asked the DTE team about the backfeed concern. They stated quite clearly, that there are built in protection devices on all their feed lines. This is done, (believe it or not) to prevent windmill and solar generators from backfeeding their system because in Michigan this is illegal. (a private user is NOT allowed to run their meter backwards to sell juice back to DTE in Michigan. This IS allowed in Ohio, I found out from a guy who has 2 ground mount solar stations and sells electricity back to his Ohio power grid.

The DTE repair guys did mention that there was plenty of protection for their equipment and offered to let me try it out. No thanks, I said. They indicated that if connected when their power supply went back on-line, my Honda genny would trip or fail instantly.

We still use the mechanical Main breaker lockout and they thought that was best for me because I have 2 meters and only power one of them. The other is '"Interruptable" and has no possible connection to the main feed. Interruptable means that DTE can shut off power for 20 minute periods when their grid is strained, usually during hot summer months. Their equipment also monitors backfeed attempts and radios it back to their Network. It's part of their online Outage Map system.

 

[DaBear3428]

" As long as the linemen are following protocol"
I knew a lineman that didn't. They are human too, and make mistakes and now he is no longer with us.
I prefer to not add any needless unsafe conditions. I know many of our linemen and there family's
personally and want them to go home each night.

Lineman are human and make mistakes, a backfeeding generator can kill them if they screw up. Yes, they should have the line grounded or covered up when working near them. However how many days has that lineman been working straight. It significantly increases the chance of them making an error. The major concern is going from phase to ground with the lineman as the conductor. A 5K generator can kill a person damn quick. Remember transformers go both directions. A little 220V generator is could be putting 7,200V or more into the line. Yes, if you throw the line fuse in and bring a line back in power it will kill a small generator quick. They get overloaded and just bog down and die, if you don't energize the line first. Makes for a heck of a flash when you throw the fuse back in.

During Major Storm Damage linemen work 16 hour days. That 8 hours is left for them to grab a bite to eat, drive home, sleep and drive back. Makes a for some dang long days.

They are supposed to ground them, or run coverups and full gear as if they were energized. But accidents happen. A crew might throw ground chains on a line but they do not realize that there is a break in the line that prevents the ground chains from working and a backfeeding generator energizes the line on the broken end. The lineman fails to check for power before going up and gets hit. Thats how fatalities happen. One step missed and a death. Its hoped that the linemen check before and figure out that there is a backfeeding generator. Normally they will then have to spend a fair amount of time trying to find the generator. If they cannot disconnect it they will just pull the service fuse and fix the line. Somehow it seems that they forget to mention that they pulled the fuse. Once the idiot realizes that everyone else has power they call theirs in. However since it is a single customer out they will be at the very bottom of the list. If your stupid enough to not hook up a generator correctly you might be out of power longer.

All good points but it is not up to us to make the linemen follow proper safety procedures, it is up to us to follow the codes and do our part to help make everyone safer.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Ive been places where you can parallel generator power with shore power....

Not that a home owner should ever be but there is a lot more hazards than just a home owner and a predator generator.

 

[Ken45101]

It's not just trained linemen that get near downed power lines. Usually the fire department is the first on the scene to block traffic, or maybe the PD if there is one.

 

[92blacksunshine]

As a lineman, I beg of you not to take shorcuts. Sure, we test the downed lines, but a tree crew or a child don't.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

It seems that at least once a year the subject of generator wiring comes up. And at least one person posts about how their particular situation, though it looks unsafe (suicide cords, for example) to most folks, is actually safe because of whatever reason they use to justify the safety of whatever they are doing. Nobody will ever be hurt because they have everything under control and if they are not around to insure safety then their spouse or trusted friend or relative knows not to do so and so, etc. Of course generator wiring is only one instance where people try to justify their bad practice. My opinion is that the reason people do these things is because they are lazy or cheap or both. It has been my experience I cannot do or say anything to change this behavior. I wonder how many people are injured each year because of people who believe their unsafe situation is safe.
Eric

Confirmation bias, It's ok and aceptable because it has worked for me.??

Or Halo bias might work into the equation?

But mostly, the people that do this stuff lack knowlege.

 

[herm0016]

as an electrician, just do the interlock, its not hard or expensive.