Unsafe generator wiring et al.

[LouNY]

I did same thing, installed interlock, last year as I posted in this thread #44, in our South TX winter mobil home, all electric. Generator is 5500 running watts with 30A built in breaker. Later I determined all my "necessary" appliance draws using clamp on meter, so I know ahead of time what I can operate. Generator can selectively power one stove top burner (<20A), elec fireplace in living room (13A), 1 ton mini split in Texas room (7A), hot water heater (25A), coffee pot (11A).... the key is selective. Frige on always, these other higher draw appliances one at a time, etc. Hot water heater obviously turned off when water is hot. A plus is lights are operable in all rooms. No elec furnace (44A) or A/c, but mini split easily keeps TX room (same as Florida room) comfortable. Elec fireplace or one space heater at a time keeps individual spaces semi comfortable in cold weather. It's all about energy use management on limited power generator.

And ready anytime for a larger generator if ever desired.
A breaker change and a bit of wiring.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Interesting thread... as a licensed professional electrician for about 25 years, I've run into some dandy situations, involving generators and otherwise.

I get a good laugh out of Joe Homeowner who says "I'm ok wiring a receptacle or switch, but not this (thing he hired me to do)"... when a "simple" switch or receptacle installed incorrectly can kill someone just as easy as any other wrong installation. Wolf in sheeps clothing, your body doesn't care if the shock came from a switch, or main breaker, it can still kill you!

Please use some type of interlock... last thing you need is some well-intentioned friend/neighbor/relative 'just trying to help out' by hooking up your half-ass generator connection and getting someone hurt or killed.

 

[check]

We get power outages often, and sometimes for days. Had an interlock installed with a 30 amp plug when we built the cottage back in 2002. Still have it of course, but more recently we got a 17 kW Kohler standby generator with an automatic transfer switch.

We need to have it automatic because many times we are not here when the power goes out. And it gets really cold.

Well worth the expenditure, in my view.

And at the rental property, we got one of those newfangled “Generlink” contraptions, which attaches right onto your meter. It automatically shuts off power from the utility company when you plug it in. Not quite as good as an automatic standby generator, but it does power the whole property. The portable generator we use with it is the Westinghouse WGen9500 dual fuel, and we just have to tell the renters not to put the oven on in the cottage or the oven on in the second building during a power outage.

 

[Oaktree]

Neighbor #1 (a mile north of us) built their geodesic dome home about 30 years ago. They put down 3 feet of shell and compacted it. County building inspector said no good, you have to build on grade, refused to let them proceed until all the shell was removed. Result 30 years later - two feet of water in the house, all the wallboard soaked right up to the ceiling, all the insulation ditto, all furniture on ground floor ruined, business equipment, appliances, nice VW Eos convertible in garage totaled, they are NOT happy. Building inspector is long gone (deceased) so nobody to sue.

OK, not sure what you're talking about when you mentioned 3 feet of shell. Are you saying they excavated 3' down and put down seashells for a base? Not quite sure how this could have prevented what happened.
Can't blame the inspector for enforcing building codes, that is their job.

 

[sunandsand]

OK, not sure what you're talking about when you mentioned 3 feet of shell. Are you saying they excavated 3' down and put down seashells for a base? Not quite sure how this could have prevented what happened.
Can't blame the inspector for enforcing building codes, that is their job.

Sorry, I wasn't clear on this.

They brought in 3' of shell (very common fill material here, we use it for roads, etc.) and made a raised building pad. It is called "shell" but it is actually crushed Coquina rock which is fossilized oyster (or something) shells. The old Spanish fort in St. Augustine is built with Coquina (shell). Part of the road to our house is shell, it hardens like concrete so you need to get it smooth when you spread it out because if you don't it will be bumpy forever.

They made a raised pad and it passed the compaction test. Top of the pad was 3' above grade. (Same thing at our home, we are 3' above grade and have been removed from the flood zone by a LOMA [Letter of Map Amendment] so we don't have to buy flood insurance.)

Anyway, what I'm told was the building inspector (allegedly) had a side hustle selling some overpriced hokey vitamins or other and wanted my friends to buy some from him, evidently as an under the radar bribe.

They declined, so he quoted some obscure reg or other (which may not even have been applicable) and wouldn't pass the inspection until the shell (fill) was removed, and that they had to build on grade (which is obviously and absolutely wrong).

Inspector is long deceased, so there's no way to get his side of the story. Of course, it could easily be a he-said, she-said with the third interpretation (i.e. what actually happened) someplace else completely.

I will say that the soggy homeowners are truthful people, and he was an engineer for NASA at the Cape, he tends to read the regs pretty carefully, tends to overbuild stuff and doesn't cut corners. I will also say that there just might possibly have been a few rumors or even actual instances of "slight, accidental irregularities" and "inadvertent mis-interpretations of the rules" on the part of a few not-exactly-impartial government officials on very rare occasions over the years.

They're grumbling about suing the county, but they are going to need ALL their paperwork (30-plus years old) and it will be a fight because the county (and all government entities) have attorneys on staff to defend against exactly this sort of thing (we pay for them out of our taxes) while they need to hire outside counsel - so they'll be paying attorney fees out of their property taxes to defend against their own lawsuit - after hiring an attorney to pursue it - against the county. (Gotcha coming and going.)

They are not happy campers right now. The damage estimates are about $50K, FEMA has coughed up something like $15K, and there is likely hidden damage they haven't even found yet.

Whew. What a circus.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[Joe Batt]

... a $69 part....
just install the interlock.

..Where do I get that? ... I just googled and found them. It's just a piece of plastic that enforces the breaker is off or on.

I've only heard of transfer switches and was told that it would be a minimum of a couple $1,000 for the wiring. In the past 20 years, no one has mentioned to me how easy this would have been to fix.

 

[sockmonkey]

It seems that at least once a year the subject of generator wiring comes up. And at least one person posts about how their particular situation, though it looks unsafe (suicide cords, for example) to most folks, is actually safe because of whatever reason they use to justify the safety of whatever they are doing. Nobody will ever be hurt because they have everything under control and if they are not around to insure safety then their spouse or trusted friend or relative knows not to do so and so, etc. Of course generator wiring is only one instance where people try to justify their bad practice. My opinion is that the reason people do these things is because they are lazy or cheap or both. It has been my experience I cannot do or say anything to change this behavior. I wonder how many people are injured each year because of people who believe their unsafe situation is safe.
Eric

A dad-gum transfer switch INSTALLED PROPERLY is the answer.

 

[grsthegreat]

www.geninterlock.com

they have aluminum interlocks. very inexpensive and UL Listed.

I have no affiliations with the company, but have ordered LOTS of their interlocks and generaton power inlet devices from them over the years. shipping to my door in maybe 3-4 days.

as long as you have 2 breaker spaces available in your panel, and you dont have an extremely old Zinsco panel, the installation of interlock is extremely easy. As an electrical contractor, i have installed MANY of these over the years. most take about 1-1.5 hours including installing exterior inlet outlet and interlock, and demonstrating to homeowner how to use it. Heck, i installed one last week....and im retired.

 

[aeblank]

When there is a major power outage here in PNW, Those guys never sleep.

Look into this...ours (Consumers Power) get *paid* to sleep. It's a set time and it's mandatory.
That's on top of the overtime and what not.
Super hard work, for sure, etc., but they're making bank during said outages.
I'm an engineer and they get in a day (24h) what I get in a week (ball-parking, cause I only know my take-home and their gross).

 

[animal12]

I know " some " power companies & co-op's did not approve these interlocks when they first came out . I tried to have teh unit that go's between the meter & the meter base approved & the engineer would not approve it . He's gone now & that co-op allows them now 12-15 years later . If it's not a approved Transfer switch it's best to have the power company involved approve anything else before instillation . I have had power shut off in places that have illeagle generator installs & I have removed several myself over the years.
animal