Unsafe generator wiring et al.

[John_Mc]

7000 watt generator could have indeed powered those homes without overloading.

I doubt that. You have to remember everything is going to be turning on at nearly the same time.

maybe not. If those homes have a generator that is properly connected, they will be disconnected from the grid.

The whole point of this is that people are fallible: both the homeowners and the people working on the lines. It also may not be the lineman who comes across that downed line. While helping to clean up and dig people out after an early season snow storm 5 years ago, I was volunteering on our community cutting downed trees out of roads and driveways. We were not touching any trees that were in contact with power lines. We were leaving those for the pros. We figured we could help out some home owners, and also make it easier for the pros to reach the trees where their expertise was really needed. Someone from the power company passed by as we were working on a driveway with multiple trees. He told us that the line was disconnected, and we could go ahead and finish the driveway while he dealt with a problem just down the road. Another volunteer went to pick up a wet log that was in contact with a downed line and felt a tingle. He dropped the log and we discontinued work until the lineman came back.

My house is wired properly, with the generator backfeeding the panel through a mechanical interlock. I have to admit that in a true emergency, I might rig something up: house risking freezing and bursting pipes, or a person with an oxygen concentrator or other medical device who is stranded in a storm. If they had no generator hook up, my first choice would be to disconnect the required appliance from the grid and plug it directly in to the generator. If there was no other way, I MIGHT consider taking other measures, but I would stay there full time while it was operating AND hang a note on their main disconnect describing what was going on.

 

[sunandsand]

I'm here in east central Floriduh where we had two storms back to back (Ian, then Nicole). Even though FPL has hardened their system, we were still out for five days because of Ian.

I have a 3.5KW Harbor Freight special. What we do is put it out back of the house and run extension cords to the fridge, freezer, a couple of lights, and the phone chargers. I also connect it to the well pump (plug on the pump, socket for main power), unplug pump from FPL (main power), plug into 220 volt outlet on generator so no possibility of back feed.

Turn it off at night, can't sleep with the noise, and the fridge and freezer stay cold until next AM when we restart the generator.

Took about six gallons of gas total.

No A/C (but not real hot anyway), tepid showers. We "roughed it" for a couple of days.

Power came back on, put everything away (and drain carb and shutoff valve on generator) until next time.

We don't "need" 100% uninterruptible power, yes, it would be nice, but not thousands and thousands of dollars worth of nice. Been here 13 years, used the generator three times, total maybe ten to twelve days. Other 4,735 days (plus a couple of leap year days), we haven't needed it.

YMMV.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida



For Nicole, the power flickered once or twice, but stayed on.

 

[etpm]

I'd guess that when there's a power outage, most people get up, look out the window to see if it's just them or the neighborhood, maybe find a flashlight, and try their phone to call someone else to see if their power is out as well. They do NOT go around and turn everything off in their house.

I guess I'm odd then. After I know the power is out and is gonna be for a while I turn everything off, which is really just the lights because I don't want them all coming on when I'm asleep. The TV and computer won't turn on by themselves when power is restored. If I had a blender running or something like that I would certainly turn it off. And in my machine shop, before I retired, I would throw the breakers for any equipment that could turn.
Eric

 

[KenEtch]

Please keep in mind installing a generator without an interlock to prevent a back feed situation is almost always a code violation, and a serious
one at that.

Amen to that. I have a generator setup with interlock, the safest & legal setup. I truly understand electrical & back feeding could potentially be lethal to someone else. Basically, if you don't know how to wire a generator safely to your house panel, seek assistance.

 

[sandman2234]

I'm here in east central Floriduh where we had two storms back to back (Ian, then Nicole). Even though FPL has hardened their system, we were still out for five days because of Ian.

I have a 3.5KW Harbor Freight special. What we do is put it out back of the house and run extension cords to the fridge, freezer, a couple of lights, and the phone chargers. I also connect it to the well pump (plug on the pump, socket for main power), unplug pump from FPL (main power), plug into 220 volt outlet on generator so no possibility of back feed.

Turn it off at night, can't sleep with the noise, and the fridge and freezer stay cold until next AM when we restart the generator.

Took about six gallons of gas total.

No A/C (but not real hot anyway), tepid showers. We "roughed it" for a couple of days.

Power came back on, put everything away (and drain carb and shutoff valve on generator) until next time.

We don't "need" 100% uninterruptible power, yes, it would be nice, but not thousands and thousands of dollars worth of nice. Been here 13 years, used the generator three times, total maybe ten to twelve days. Other 4,735 days (plus a couple of leap year days), we haven't needed it.

YMMV.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida



For Nicole, the power flickered once or twice, but stayed on.

You were fortunate! The Disaster relief team I am on spent some time in Port Charlotte and there were plenty of people still without power after a couple weeks! We were doing roof tarps and chainsaw work for Ian, and mudouts for Nicole.
David from jax

 

[sunandsand]

You were fortunate! The Disaster relief team I am on spent some time in Port Charlotte and there were plenty of people still without power after a couple weeks! We were doing roof tarps and chainsaw work for Ian, and mudouts for Nicole.
David from jax

Absolutely agree, we were indeed fortunate. We have some nearby neighbors who didn't do as well.

Neighbor #1 (a mile north of us) built their geodesic dome home about 30 years ago. They put down 3 feet of shell and compacted it. County building inspector said no good, you have to build on grade, refused to let them proceed until all the shell was removed. Result 30 years later - two feet of water in the house, all the wallboard soaked right up to the ceiling, all the insulation ditto, all furniture on ground floor ruined, business equipment, appliances, nice VW Eos convertible in garage totaled, they are NOT happy. Building inspector is long gone (deceased) so nobody to sue. They're pushing paper for FEMA. Rebuilding because they want to stay there.

Neighbor #2 (half a mile north of us), in an older subdivision, houses maybe six inches to a foot above grade. Same thing. All the wallboard, insulation, furniture ruined, they took out some wallboard between a bedroom and one of the bathrooms, found it BOILING with carpenter ants, plenty of mold, altogether nasty. They're staying too, they're also trying to work with FEMA, but not getting particularly fast or good results.

We got over 20 inches of rain in 24 hours, and there was simply no place for it to go. A contributing factor was budget cuts for the mosquito control district. Five years ago they decided they wouldn't maintain the ditches (and there are a LOT of them) and the cities had to do it - but they never bothered to tell the cities! Result was that the ditches were clogged with brush, old tires, miscellaneous junk, some people had filled them and some people had actually built on them! (No building permits of course . . . ) Then the rains came and the water stayed.

Then, to add insult to injury, FEMA came to town. FEMA . . . Futile Expectations of Meaningful Assistance. Conflicting information, atrocious website, bounce back and forth between FEMA and SBA, both saying the other one is who you need to contact. One guy I worked with said he is a GSA employee and they said they needed him for disaster relief. The promised six day's training was done in four hours and he's at work processing claims. One thing they ALL asked me was "Where's a good place to eat around here?" (Pay my claim and I'll tell you.)

I had a small claim, and the form wanted to know name, address, SSN, phone, birth date - and here's a new one - WHERE I was born! (I thought about saying "In a log cabin" but I have no political aspirations.) I did the repairs myself, and they say no, that's no good, you have to have a contractor do it and send us an invoice. I didn't even claim for labor, just for the well pump which died, and I gave them a copy of the invoice.

Reminds me of the joke about how many programmers does it take to change a light bulb . . . none, that's a hardware problem. They wanted me to call a contractor to connect two pipes and one wire - and of course all the contractors were and still are busy, and we wouldn't have had water in the house until some time in 2026.

I did get a box of MRE's from them for next time . . .

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[GeneV]

I just installed an interlock on my panel. Cheap, easy to install, makes it idiot proof safe and up to code...kinda dumb not to do it imho.

 

[KenEtch]

I just installed an interlock on my panel. Cheap, easy to install, makes it idiot proof safe and up to code...kinda dumb not to do it imho.

I did same thing, installed interlock, last year as I posted in this thread #44, in our South TX winter mobil home, all electric. Generator is 5500 running watts with 30A built in breaker. Later I determined all my "necessary" appliance draws using clamp on meter, so I know ahead of time what I can operate. Generator can selectively power one stove top burner (<20A), elec fireplace in living room (13A), 1 ton mini split in Texas room (7A), hot water heater (25A), coffee pot (11A).... the key is selective. Frige on always, these other higher draw appliances one at a time, etc. Hot water heater obviously turned off when water is hot. A plus is lights are operable in all rooms. No elec furnace (44A) or A/c, but mini split easily keeps TX room (same as Florida room) comfortable. Elec fireplace or one space heater at a time keeps individual spaces semi comfortable in cold weather. It's all about energy use management on limited power generator.

 

[jwmorris]

I wonder how many people are injured each year because of people who believe their unsafe situation is safe.

I wonder how many people are injured each year because they think they can’t get hurt because they always do things safely?

I bet both groups are larger than we think.

 

[GeneV]

I did same thing, installed interlock, last year as I posted in this thread #44, in our South TX winter mobil home, all electric. Generator is 5500 running watts with 30A built in breaker. Later I determined all my "necessary" appliance draws using clamp on meter, so I know ahead of time what I can operate. Generator can selectively power one stove top burner (<20A), elec fireplace in living room (13A), 1 ton mini split in Texas room (7A), hot water heater (25A), coffee pot (11A).... the key is selective. Frige on always, these other higher draw appliances one at a time, etc. Hot water heater obviously turned off when water is hot. A plus is lights are operable in all rooms. No elec furnace (44A) or A/c, but mini split easily keeps TX room (same as Florida room) comfortable. Elec fireplace or one space heater at a time keeps individual spaces semi comfortable in cold weather. It's all about energy use management on limited power generator.

That's why I opted for an interlock as opposed to a transfer switch. I want the option to pick and choose what I want to power, per circumstances.