Untreated lumber for uncovered deck?

[Sawyer Rob]

Yankee redneck solution (likely not EPA approved). Dig a shallow trench or build a wooden frame, line same with 6-mill poly, place board(s) in trench or frame and cover with used crankcase oil. Will also have to cobble together a rack or pan with grating to let the treated boards drain/dry. Painting or further treatment not practicable.

My neighbor soaked rough sawn poles in a 55 gallon drum with used motor oil in it, for quite a long time. He used the poles in the ground for his sawmill shed and build the shed.

After a few years the poles were rotting where they contacted the ground...

Nothing us normal mortals can buy or do, will keep poles from rotting without a huge amount of maintenance.

SR

 

[bcp]

Having built and rebuilt and rebuilt and rebuilt decks, I've come to prefer concrete.

Bruce

 

[PILOON]

Whatever U do, don't use pain or opaque stains as they will crack, peel and then water gets under and starts rot.
I'd suggest a thorough application of preservative (once dry) followed by another coat every 2 years.
I've done this and my exposed deck is 25 years old now and but 2 boards that should now be replaced, (water entered splits)

 

[Birdhunter1]

I built my back porch deck out of red oak 10 years ago, I put stain on it one time 2 years in and I have replaced one board in all that time. Granted I do have my deck covered BUT the sun hits the south side of it and puts sunlight on it all day till about 4pm and the rain will blow in on that same side often, deck stain still looks good, the wood itself is still strong.

 

[ning]

Having built and rebuilt and rebuilt and rebuilt decks, I've come to prefer concrete.

Bruce

I'm hating decks more and more.
I like the general concept, but my next house will have a ground-level patio. Probably brick with grasses deliberately grown up between the bricks so I don't have great expectations of absolutely nothing growing there, or maybe in a slab. Regardless, not wood, and not rotting.

 

[ponytug]

I went with PVC "wood" in the latest go around for fire resistance reasons. Looks nice, but it hasn't been that long. The prior redwood deck as rotting out. Mostly the rot was in the support beams, but some of the redwood as well. I think that the reputation of redwood for rot resistance comes from old growth redwood, not the mass market wood.

@ning I am with you about patio vs deck, but when it is 14' in the air, sometimes wood is easier and cheaper than concrete...

All the best,

Peter

 

[N80]

Thanks guys.

Several thoughts:

You guys are all over the place with recommendations, many of which are contradictory! ;-) I'm not complaining. I asked.

As for patio vs deck. Not an option. This will be 4 feet off the ground.

As for old growth wood. Tell me about it. The wood on my nearly 100 year old home sat unpainted for years after my grandmother passed (it was her house). Not a sign of rot or cracking. In places where we replaced exterior trim molding the growth rings are so tight you can barely count them. In a 2 inch cross section 1 counted 40 years of rings.

As for opaque stain. My son used to work for PP&G. When we built a "white picket" fence in our back yard he recommended a white opaque stain on treated lumber that had dried a while. That was 6 years ago. It is still solid and looks great. Even the horizontal flat pieces. Its lasting a lot longer than the front porch steps at the cabin!

PVC wood is a great option. I used it on my screen porch addition on my home in town. Durable stuff. But it is ungodly expensive and in this case even the 'wood grain' versions of it would look out of place at the cabin which is very rustic.

I've been thinking about what you guys have said about pine. It occurs to me that the whole log cabin is made of pine. The only treatment it had was borax at the mill. It has been stained twice in 20 years and there have been zero issues and the logs were exposed to rain and sun uncovered for 6 months when we were building it. I understand that those are vertical walls and thick logs but the dovetail ends get rain and sun constantly and no issues. The porch and rear deck are also pine. Granted, they are treated and with older treated lumber but they are fine too. The porch is covered and the 2x6 treated floor has never been stained. They are dry, gray and in great shape.

Anyway, I've got a lot to think about and sort out. Fortunately I'll have plenty of time to work it out. Saw mill doesn't even ship until late November and anything I cut will have to dry for a while too.

I do appreciate all the help. Keep it coming.

And there will be tons more stupid questions because the next project on the list is a 3 bay shop that I hope to build myself out of the lumber I cut. That's a few years down the road. It will be on a concrete slab.

 

[Egon]

Sounds like you are well ahead of most of us on what works.

 

[Jstpssng]

Saw mill doesn't even ship until late November and anything I cut will have to dry for a while too.

If you ordered from the same company I did, don't count on that date. When I ordered in March they said 18 weeks, when that passed they said it would be built on August 12. When I asked on Aug 15 about delivery date they said that the build was pushed back again and it will be built on Oct 21. Supposedly they can't get water bottles...

 

[N80]

Sounds like you are well ahead of most of us on what works.

My son says every paint business expert has a different opinion about what works and what doesn't. And that they'll fight you over it.

 

[N80]

If you ordered from the same company I did, don't count on that date. When I ordered in March they said 18 weeks, when that passed they said it would be built on August 12. When I asked on Aug 15 about delivery date they said that the build was pushed back again and it will be built on Oct 21. Supposedly they can't get water bottles...

I ordered a Woodland Mills. They are currently saying Nov 31. They're water tanks are aluminum. Maybe that's the problem. Woodmizer states they are 44 weeks out. When I contacted them they said at least 45 weeks out. Even if I picked it up.

With Woodland Mills I can cancel the order at any time before it leaves their warehouse. However, they bill your credit card when you put the order in. I didn't like that a bit. My wife, always a cooler head than me, says it is to be expected.

I'm not sure why.

 

[Jstpssng]

I ordered a Woodland Mills. They are currently saying Nov 31. They're water tanks are aluminum. Maybe that's the problem. Woodmizer states they are 44 weeks out. When I contacted them they said at least 45 weeks out. Even if I picked it up.

With Woodland Mills I can cancel the order at any time before it leaves their warehouse. However, they bill your credit card when you put the order in. I didn't like that a bit. My wife, always a cooler head than me, says it is to be expected.

I'm not sure why.

I ordered the base model from another major company. I suspect they are filling orders on bigger machines first, as they make more money off them. I can understand that, but if they don't want my business they should just say so. I put $500 down on it in March, and have had to spend some of the remainder on lumber as I need to get ready for winter. Even if I got it this month I won't be able to use it until spring... it will probably stay right in the crate until April.

 

[N80]

I think they have been hit by the same stuff we are all getting hit with. Covid related stuff. Trouble getting junk off the boats from China. People being paid not to work. Not enough truckers. Etc.

That is what is killing us at work. We are woefully understaffed and the only applications we get are people applying just so they can stay on unemployment. They don't even return our calls. We pay okay. Hours are good. No nights. No weekends. No holidays.

The scary thing is that I work in healthcare. We have zero serious applications for med techs and we are well under 50% of our staffing needs. We hear it is true nationwide.

This is not to start a political conversation. Just saying I get why folks can't get product to market.

 

[beowulf]

I am sure you will get many contrary opinions to this one, but:

The 16 x 40' deck we put in about 30+ years ago is still serviceable but it is time to replace both the boards and the supporting 4 x 6 treated lumber.

The deck surface was originally all 2 x 6 redwood - stained.

After some time we 'painted' (renewed) the deck with something called Renew, or Restore. A stain-paint with some grit in it.

As some of the redwood began to have issues, I replaced boards with 2 x 6 fir. We continued to paint it with the Renew product as needed over the years.

I am now going to tear it out entirely. I will use 4 x 6 treated for the supports, but will use Douglas fir for the decking - painted with the same product (Renew or Restore?).

One issue with the deck was that our deck tree's tiny leaves would get into the gaps between the boards, and would get stuck in the gap just above the 4 x 6 supports. Moisture would collect there and that was where we had the most issues with the deck. This time I will get a 6" wide roll of aluminum (used in roofing) and before putting down the deck boards I will put that down on top of the support boards - and likely bend it down a bit on each side.

It may not get into Architectural Digest but will look fine - we had many compliments on our deck as originally constructed, and it will likely last another 30 years.

The disagreements with this will likely be with the use of Douglas Fir instead of some other wood product and I fully understand that - but for my own experience I would be agreeing. But it works well for us and costs a lot less.

 

[etpm]

I'm gonna hijack this thread a little. I live north of Seattle with pretty much the same weather. This last summer I had built a covered area, about 16' x 20', that sits away from everything except for a big old fir. One end of the structure is only about 15' away from the tree. I don't even know if any of that matters. The roof is sloped and is getting a rain gutter that will drain through an underground pipe into a dry well that will be about 20' from the corner of the structure. OK, after all that explanation of what I have here is what I want to do. Put in a wood floor. The dirt gets wet about 3' in from every direction when it rains hard. I have been told to put in concrete. But the structure is all wood but for the tin roof. It has 4 massive round posts holding up the roof. The posts are all about 14 inches in diameter and for a structure this size look and feel massive. So a wood floor seems way more appropriate. As it happens I have some purple heart left over from when the porch and deck were built for my house. But only enough for a decorative perimeter maybe 1 foot wide. I also have maple flooring left over from when the house was built. More than enough to make a floor for the structure. Could the maple be treated and used outside? I mean, would it last 30 years? Perhaps I should try to trade it for some more purple heart or some ipe.
Thanks for reading,
Eric

 

[ponytug]

My son says every paint business expert has a different opinion about what works and what doesn't. And that they'll fight you over it.

Boy that's the truth. And then they reformulate without changing the label, and what was golden is now basically water color paint.

(I happen to like many of PPG's products, but often not exactly cheap.)

All the best,

Peter

 

[Egon]

I'm gonna hijack this thread a little. I live north of Seattle with pretty much the same weather. This last summer I had built a covered area, about 16' x 20', that sits away from everything except for a big old fir. One end of the structure is only about 15' away from the tree. I don't even know if any of that matters. The roof is sloped and is getting a rain gutter that will drain through an underground pipe into a dry well that will be about 20' from the corner of the structure. OK, after all that explanation of what I have here is what I want to do. Put in a wood floor. The dirt gets wet about 3' in from every direction when it rains hard. I have been told to put in concrete. But the structure is all wood but for the tin roof. It has 4 massive round posts holding up the roof. The posts are all about 14 inches in diameter and for a structure this size look and feel massive. So a wood floor seems way more appropriate. As it happens I have some purple heart left over from when the porch and deck were built for my house. But only enough for a decorative perimeter maybe 1 foot wide. I also have maple flooring left over from when the house was built. More than enough to make a floor for the structure. Could the maple be treated and used outside? I mean, would it last 30 years? Perhaps I should try to trade it for some more purple heart or some ipe.
Thanks for reading,
Eric

Build up the floor with crushed gravel and then use concrete pavers for the floor.

On the support posts drill a downward facing hole just above ground level and fill it with wood preservative on a regular basis. Keep the holes on the inside of the structure.

 

[EddieWalker]

I went by a clients house yesterday that I had installed a temporary power pole for their RV back in 2007. When I installed it, I packed around the pole with dirt and braced it with two 2x4's and wood stakes in the ground. It's now used to power a small workshop, and the 2x4's are still in great condition. The only reason I checked was because of this thread, and the owner was showing me all that he had done to his workshop. I saw the 2x4's where still there and I had to check them out. I really wonder how long untreated pine could stay outside and remain solid if it is able to dry out quickly?

 

[etpm]

Build up the floor with crushed gravel and then use concrete pavers for the floor.

On the support posts drill a downward facing hole just above ground level and fill it with wood preservative on a regular basis. Keep the holes on the inside of the structure.

The posts are treated. Plus, I painted wood preservative on the part that is now in concrete in the ground. Several coats to let it really soak into the ends. But I like your idea. I have some very long drill bits and by using a shallow angle I could get pretty deep holes.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Where I live, we learned long ago to never imbed post in concrete.

The post shrinks away from the concrete and then the concrete holds ground water and the post rot sooner.

SR