Useing sand as build up fill on existing clay..?

[JANDG]

Wrong ,...
every square inch of wetlands is easy to look up in this county on a very detailed & precise mapping. Hydric soil is NOT Wetlands by law & again easily to look @ anyones property in my county. I am no stanger the to the absolute BS wetlands gig. The detail in my county goes way beyong ariel photos. I am the lucky one, many in this county are screwed. . You just gotta know were it is & I do for **** sure. I have to many nice large trees for the Dozer or would do that & a good suggestion though.. I will be purchaseing a new 5' tiller in a month or so & will just experiment with differant areas. I appreciate all the suggestions other then the single dogmatic, pulled from thin air, enviromentalist BS responce.
Joe

 

[rambler]

I think folks are telling you to be careful on the wetlands deal - here in MN it is as the other fella describes, they made a map of wetlands back in the mid 1980s, but they can revise that on any whim they want. There are laws already written that some want to pass, making these fedral controled areas, not your county or state - will be much worse. I'm getting tile into my farm fields where I can, while I can! It'll only get worse.

Many people don't realize that; sounds like you have been down this path more than most, so you don't need the lecture. A lot of folk on sites like this don't realize how serious this issue gets treated in many states, many counties.

I took the other fella's message as helping you, not being against you. Same goes for my comments previous and now.

Sand is more of a liquid than a solid - good pure sand will never settle down & be stable. Wind can make it have moving waves, like water. Put some in a bucket, add water, put your foot in it & yea you can stand on it. But aggitate it just a little bit, and it swirls up & you foot will sink through it like a liquid.

The bulldozer - or a box blade & time - might go a long way if you can manage the trees.

Some people get all wigged out for a 6 inch 'hill' on their property, and others are used to 45 degree hills and valleys. So, it's kinda hard to know what you are actually dealing with.

I'd mix the sand with clay or other fill. Pure sand any deeper than a couple inche just doesn't sound good.

--->Paul

 

[Dave5264]

Id also not recommend using pure sand as the fill. Depending on how wet that area is, yo may see it wash away over time, or as another member indicated the water will still sit on top of the clay and you'll sink your tractor. I had an area like this on my farm and it was like quick-sand every spring.

Id recommend, taking your box blade or dozer and scraping off an equivalent volume of clay to the sand you have delivered and mix the 2 to raise the level.
throw in some sileage, old hay, manure, or what not, and you should have a decent fill that will compact and let water run off.

another possibility..could you dig another smaller drainage ditch fom the low spot, fill it with weeping sone or 6' rock before you apply your fill ? will help drain the water.

 

[Pops15]

Lots of opinions here. I'll add mine for what its worth.
Scrape 3-4" of topsoil off the areas you want to fill. Put sand in the low areas and till it in. Put the 3-4" of topsoil back on top of the sand. That should be plenty stable for your ZTR. Just keep the heavy equipment off it.

As far as wetlands......I'd be surprised if the aerial photos are updated annually. The county where I live in IL started updating theirs every 10 years. Before that they had gone over 20 years. Aerial photos only show likely areas of concern. They send guys in on foot to confirm or deny what the pictures show.... Surprisingly wetlands don't have to be wet. My sister and BIL used to have a farm in NY. They got a letter from the state saying a survey crew was going to be in the area documenting wetlands and they'd be on my sister's property on certain dates. Awhile after that they got another letter from the state telling them they couldn't farm or alter part of their land that was classified as wetlands. My BIL called the agency that sent the letter and arranged for someone to bring the wetlands map and show him exactly what area was off limits. When the guy from the state got there he pointed out several acres of dry land. My BIL pointed out they must have made a mistake because the swamp was in a different area. The guy from the state said the swamp wasn't classified as wetlands and it was legal to drain the swamp if done a certain way. The portion of the land that was classified as "wetlands" was done so because of the types of vegetation that were growing on it. The guy from the state pointed out some plants that made the area "wetlands" in the state's eyes. My BIL pulled one of the plants and said you mean this weed makes it wetlands? The guy from the state told him not to destroy any more plants on the wetlands or he'd be fined and could possibly go to prison.
Tax dollars at work.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm not an envornmentalist, but I do know the wetland laws. Wetlands come and go and there will never be a "final" wetland map that puts you in the clear forever. The first part in dealing with the wetland regs to your advantage is to know them and I can see that you don't know them. Ignorance will be no excuse if the real enviro guys from the govt. catch you.

I agree that they've gone way too far with these wetland laws and that the class 3 and 4 wetlands, the ones that aren't even wet, should not be regulated. Currently they are though. So you need to know that first of all, water in may on clay IS a wetland nomatter how much you don't want to believe this, and second, that wetlands come and go. They might need some help with the "go"ing. Be discreet if you choose to proceed with the "go"ing since you will be on the wrong side of the law.

Hey, I broke the speed limit on the way to work today. We all break laws. Weigh the risks when you do.

Oh yes, the counties and cities in these populated areas of western washington absolutely keep aerial photos each year. These are much better than google earth's photos and more current. I live in Pierce county and I believe that the OP lives in Thurston county but maybe the next one south. You don't need to be too worried about being photographed doing the work, you need to be worried about them looking at an old photo and comparing it to the new look of the land.

 

[JANDG]

Sure Highbeam,

When we used to own 100's of acres close to here for the last 40+ years I have been thru the rigger with em over perc tests for septic systems over & over again & on every kinda engineered system you can think of.. Had em here picking out my plant species also,many times over. Sword fern...they say....,well that is good. at least for now...........I am sure am the only legal septic system guy for 50 mile circle..lucky yes. ..Moratorium sometimes, sometimes not..no fill sometimes, sometimes yes & this is non wetlands areas. Just depends. Everyone is my area was made very aware of how the scary BS goes down if they allready didn't get it. The state & Feds handed out one of the largest fines & prison time not long ago to a poor fella. He actually made the 40+acres very nice & I have been there. But,...... he splashed a little dirt in a sewer riddled creek & that was that ..rest is history. I feel for the guy..life destoryed .truely..over nothing. Actually are liberal WA papers said somethinng of the sort that it was the worst recorded damage of wetland & clean water act violation in WA history,, a farse & complete lie. all for big $ & to scare people,contractors, etc, etc..$$$ & complete control. I got a (&(&(&(*& letter 20 years ago that a--=--=- spotted owl was living 7 miles from my house & immediately has to stop touching anything,this went on till people got crazy mad & went thru proper channels. 1 f..ing owl 7 miles from here realy gave me a headache. The reason I don't mow till may is necause my ZRT weighs almost 2000lbs & it will needlessly & slightly rut unless really dry out. I just wait till May 1st mostly & then it is on. Love mowing, & basiclly the reason for filling & smoothiing.The property is nice as is, but have the time & $ for now to work it better. Until the hard left gets the H...out of WA I fear in time mowing will be illegal, hopefully I will be passed on by then, I use this site for good info & thanks for the help
Joe

 

[archerm3]

About 40 miles S. of Olympia I am. I here ya on the bringing in to much fill, but my nieghbor directly across the road has done 1000's & 1000's of yards of fill free from the optic company that went thru here a few years ago. & all my other neibors also do the same, so should be good to go as long as no building or perc testing is going to happen which is isn't. I am well tucked on a private road & as long as I don't drain directly to my nieghbors I will be fine. Well at least as long as Obama doesn't get back in office in 2012.
I definately will do mixing of materials experiments & no direct 100% sand fill. Were is Renton in relation to S of Oly..? I do feel for the fellas that have declared wet lands on thier properties....all complete BS to me. What you don't want to do in WA or any state for that matter is mess with creeks or rivers without proper permits, they don't play around with so called "Clean Water Act" violations & this can be from simply duumping small amounts of plain old dirt in a creek can land ya in the big house with 00000000 in fines. WA state is now famouse for such BS ruleings/convictions on normal peoples.
Joe

Curious as to how Obama can have any effect on your local zoning laws. I would understand it if you had said your locally elected politicians...