Using a front end loader effectively

[daTeacha]

I've been having to remove extra gravel from a driveway lately. I use the back blade to move the excess to the center, then set the bucket at level or slightly downward. I drive up the driveway slowly, very slowly lifting the bucket to compensate for the weight being added in front as it fills. I've manged to load the 60" bucket with enough limestone that I could see it over the top of the unrolled bucket.

I then roll it back, lift it a bit, proceed up the hill, and slowly dump it forward, spreading a pretty nice even layer of gravel on the upper part of the drive.

If I don't get the lift part just right, it tends to dig too deep and leave a bare patch in the middle of the drive, but I can usually fill that with a couple passes from the back blade or back drag the bucket.

On the back dragging topic -- my Case loader seems to almost float with respect to it's angle when back dragging unless I keep working the valve a little. The 'bota didn't do that, it was just solidly in position. Any else notice anything like it? It can move toward the rolled back position, but not toward the dump position.

 

[KJO]

Last year I had a project at home in which I needed to load and move about 300 yards of dirt mixed with concrete, pieces of cinder block and rocks, left over construction material. It has been setting there for several years and was packed pretty well. My loader tractor isn't real heavy and I don't have any additional weight on the rear other than fluid in the tires. The technique described by several here...level the bucket, then when you get close drop the cutting edge just slightly and when you reach the material begin to curl the bucket as you raise it. Do both simultaneously. It works pretty well, but what really helped is when my uncle showed up with a D4 cat and pushed the packed material loose while I loaded it on the truck. Took 89 truck loads but we got it finished!

 

[KJO]

Last year I had a project at home in which I needed to load and move about 300 yards of dirt mixed with concrete, pieces of cinder block and rocks, left over construction material. It has been setting there for several years and was packed pretty well. My loader tractor isn't real heavy and I don't have any additional weight on the rear other than fluid in the tires. The technique described by several here...level the bucket, then when you get close drop the cutting edge just slightly and when you reach the material begin to curl the bucket as you raise it. Do both simultaneously. It works pretty well, but what really helped is when my uncle showed up with a D4 cat and pushed the packed material loose while I loaded it on the truck. Took 89 truck loads but we got it finished!

 

[tjhowell63]

On a different but similar note, I have no problems picking up stuff from piles or rocks. Now don't call me lazy, but I find a lot of times I need to pick up stuff that is loose and level with the ground. Let me give you some examples. After I have drug the pine needle rake through the yard, I have a pile of pine needles. Very light stuff. How can I scoop this into the bucket? During back dragging and other times I have large diameter tree limbs or other items that I end up just pushing rather than scooping. Now I know I can get my butt up and push or rake stuff into the bucket or get off and usually pick stuff up. My problem is I'm 67 yrs. old and it's not easy to get on/off/on/off etc. plus I have a bad back.

Any suggestions?

 

[Diggin It]

^^ Despite the 13, going on 14 year old thread, that could be a perfect use for a version of a grapple that will fit your machine. There are several different types and I seem to recall at least one that doesn't need front hydraulics. Some kind of manual lever, but I can't remember where I saw it.

 

[tjhowell63]

^^ Despite the 13, going on 14 year old thread, that could be a perfect use for a version of a grapple that will fit your machine. There are several different types and I seem to recall at least one that doesn't need front hydraulics. Some kind of manual lever, but I can't remember where I saw it.

I do have a root grapple with 3 top jaws and a whole row of bottom teeth. I was just maybe looking for a solution without changing implements and hooking up the hydraulics for the grapple. Just wondering if there was a technique I wasn't aware of. Thanks for your response, it was very much appreciated.

 

[Diggin It]

The only other way I can think of is to push up against something (wall, timber, etc.) but I don't know what you might use to accomplish that in an open area.

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN.... (13 year old thread revival, but good info).

Scooping up light, fluffy, loose material is next to impossible if there's nothing to force it against to get it over the lip of the bucket. Think of using a dustpan with no broom on your kitchen floor... it doesn't work unless you either press the dust up against a baseboard or toe-kick under a cabinet, or, you move the dustpan very, very fast and scoop and lift at the same time..... it just doesn't work well.

A grapple won't work on pine needles unless there's large enough sticks to bind with the material to engage the grapple teeth.

A 4-in-1 bucket would work pretty well, I'd guess. Open it up, set it down on the pile of pine needles, then close it to scoop them up. But that's just a guess, since I don't have a 4-in-1 bucket.

 

[JohnMacca]

Welcome to TBN.... (13 year old thread revival, but good info).

Scooping up light, fluffy, loose material is next to impossible if there's nothing to force it against to get it over the lip of the bucket. Think of using a dustpan with no broom on your kitchen floor... it doesn't work unless you either press the dust up against a baseboard or toe-kick under a cabinet, or, you move the dustpan very, very fast and scoop and lift at the same time..... it just doesn't work well.

A grapple won't work on pine needles unless there's large enough sticks to bind with the material to engage the grapple teeth.

A 4-in-1 bucket would work pretty well, I'd guess. Open it up, set it down on the pile of pine needles, then close it to scoop them up. But that's just a guess, since I don't have a 4-in-1 bucket.

Yes, a 4-in-1 bucket works well for picking up the last bit of dirt / gravel / whatever, instead of chasing it all around the yard. I often clean up the remains of a burn pile using a stick rake to create a small row and then run along the row with the bucket open and close it and the end. The dustpan analogy is pretty close - you can get almost all of it by repeating this from a couple of different angles.

(Just "pinching" up the last little bit without gouging the ground by coordinating the curl and the grab is the skill that I am still working on).

 

[SmallChange]

Lotta good stuff here. Practice is great, but so is other people's experience to learn from, so the combination of the two is best of all.

I've always engaged the differential lock on my little Kubota on the fly, and so far have done the same on my new NH. But "on the fly" in this context means moving at less than walking speed. I don't want to hit the pile at any faster speed than I'd want to walk up to a wall. It's never broken anything, made any noises, felt weird, or anything. I think the advice about not using it at high speeds or in turns has more to do with having the tractor unable to negotiate a curve, and tipping or going straight and hitting something.

One thing that helps, when you're driving a 4WD further into the pile and curling, is that you're putting downforce on the front wheels which adds traction and forward force. I think for this reason it's good to keep the bucket angled so that there's a gap under the bucket everywhere but the cutting edge. Too much curl and too little lift will have the bucket trying to lift the front wheels instead, so you're turning wheel traction into bucket drag. You want the planing action of the bucket bottom to drive your front wheels down, never up.

 

[Diggin It]

A grapple won't work on pine needles unless there's large enough sticks to bind with the material to engage the grapple teeth.

I'm not thinking of a full grapple, but rather one of those half grapple things that clamps down on top of an FEL bucket. Not sure what they're called.

 

[jjp8182]

I'm not thinking of a full grapple, but rather one of those half grapple things that clamps down on top of an FEL bucket. Not sure what they're called.

an Add A Grapple?

I'd think something like that, but with the grapple tines modified to have a smooth edge (perhaps by strapping/bolting a bucket-width long board to the tines) rather than the independent tines would do the trick. It'd be sort of like turning the tines into the broom from the earlier analogy. ...which would also end up being a bit like the 4-in-1 bucket suggestion.

While I haven't dealt with pine needles (yet) based on other light-ish materials I have worked with I'd think either idea would work - especially when paired with approaching the pile from alternating directions.

....actually if space allows it *might* make things easier to leave the pine needles in a windrow rather than a pile. I'm just thinking of the times I've used a grapple to rake up long windrows of green vegetation (mostly tall weeds) that I'd pulled out and into windrows with a box blade. Using the grapple like I was trying push the windrow into a pile made the windrow turn into a pile in the bottom of the grapple ..... at which point I'd closed the lid and hauled the load off.

Without trying it I don't know how well that technique would work on pine needles (especially short ones), but I figured it was worth sharing just to provide a different perspective. As an engineer I've learned that some times even a "dumb" idea can help spur discovery of a great idea just by changing how a person thinks about the task/problem.

 

[oosik]

When I had my bucket on the FEL - pile of gravel or dirt - come in flat on the ground. Push the bucket part way into the pile - begin to curl up, lift and drive forward. All at the same time. What you get is what you get. Practice, practice, etc.

 

[1930]

Im still fairly new to tractors, I had alot of trouble with my FEL and picking up material. Ive since learned that the majority of the problem has nothing to do with my lack of experience to operate the loader but instead the tractors inability to gain traction for the material I was attempting to move.

My point is if you cant move the material than get a larger tractor or be satisfied with carrying a much smaller load than your bucket will carry with some materials.

 

[ptsg]

The reality is that these tractors are not neither a bulldozer nor an industrial loader. They are not meant go to a compacted pile of material and dig it out... That's just a way to cause problems faster in the future.

Most people think that because the tractor has a loader, it can move the world, but it can't.

If you force the tractor to dig a pile of material, you're really just risking having to replace the front diff or breaking other stuff.

 

[RalphVa]

I'm a new tractor owner and I'm not very good at using a loader. For example, if I try to scoop soil or rocks from a large pile I'm not always able to get a full scoop. I also can't pick up a large rock out in a field. (I don't have a problem with a pile of fluffy stuff like compost).

Anyway, what is the proper technique for using the FEL--at what angle should I set the loader when I approach the pile; do I scoop from the top or bottom of the pile, etc.

Thanks
Steve

I got my practice early on with my first tractor, a JD 4010 (like a 2019E today, if they made it). Ordered it from the dealer with a tooth bar. Went to work spreading 22 tons of gravel down my tractor paths to keep from sliding down the hill later on.

The trick is to coordinate the FEL dipping and curling and forward motion. I'd dig right into the side of a big pile of gravel. You also need lots of throttle, near full PTO rpm. Never used the diff lock for that, but it's a good suggestion.

I usually go for about 30 to 45 degrees on the bucket tilt and go forward with a slow curl all at the same time. Even with the slow FEL on the 4010 (the 2025's is much faster), it worked good. Works even in soft earth. Forget it if the earth is even a bit hard. The bucket is just too wide for much dirt digging. The tooth bar will help on dirt, but not much. For harder dirt, you probably want to point the bucket (with tooth bar) straight down and have the FEL on float and just rough it up a lot first. Then try some digs.

For mulch, go for the bottom of the pile: no curl, just flat. Curl when you think you have a full bucket. Can raise and tilt the bucket back and go a 2nd time. Beware of raising too much or doing it if the tractor is tilted at all to one side. DANGER!

Ralph