Traction Using a Tractor on Mountain Property

[wrodrig007]

i use a kubota b7300 because i have very hilly VA property myself. it does well cutting the grass but should of got one size larger to get power steering and more horse power; to do more work been on very steep hills and never had a problem with rollover. i really like the tractor it runs good and never had any problems except the mower deck i had to rebuild the gearbox after 13 years of use. good luck to you

 

[cqaigy2]

The power trac is lacking in the ground clearance department and has quite small tires which will have a harder time rolling over objects or uneven surfaces that a tractor tire could handle easily. Could have issues getting it stuck a lot if not on smooth enough ground

One would think it you haven't actually used one, but that is not correct. Mine doesn't have a problem climbing up and over stumps, logs and such and it's much more stable then a regular tractor, while doing it.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Like I said, I own a PT. The big one. I am not biased, though. If I had found a tractor that would exceed 20 degrees sideways on slopes I would have probably jumped at the opportunity.

The PT is not for everyone, and you don't see any PT owner getting into a conversation about it being a better machine than a normal tractor until you have people asking on two issues, one being slopes, and one being manueverability. The small PT is a fantastic machine for tight spaces. It is very powerful for its size, and has tons of attachments making it very versatile. Given its engine, in manages slopes well.

As for slopes, unless you have big bucks, the larger PT is probably the best machine you are going to find, and one that is going to make you feel incredibly comfortable. My wife is a very fearful person. She visualizes the worst possible scenarious of anything and then talks herself out of tons of great experiences. The PT is the only machine I have seen her get on where she jetted down the slopes, cut across sideways and came back up saying it was no big thing.

You might be able to make a CUT work, but given your description of your slopes, why risk it. One bad bump and over you go. Now maybe you come from a line of race car drivers or others who are fearless and know how to respond in an accident (seatbelt on, keep your hands inside and don't try to catch yourself when you roll over). If so, the cut is going to be easier to get serviced, and easier to purchase used implements.

Will a cut work for your needs, maybe. Depends on how much you are willing to give up (how much of your sloped property you do not want to maintain, at least with the tractor). It actually might not be a bad thing, you may go from 15 degrees to cliff and well, the PT would be no better than a cut. But if you want to get serious about the slope work, get a machine that is designed for the slopes. There are a few others like the PT, but they are european, hard to get parts for and very few distributors but very well made machines.

Finally, as I said, there are some quirks to the PT you have to be prepared for. The biggest is that there is no dealer network. You order straight from the factory, and all your parts come from the factory. You need to be comfortable turning a wrench as they have more working parts than a normal tractor. Or you need to have a friend who is a mechanic. They are easy to fix, and when you start to dig, you will find the parts are mostly off the shelf and you can purchase locally.

Oh, you said you felt the machine is loud. Hmmmm... It ain't quiet, but I have never been on a tractor that is. It has a whine to it which is a bonus noise, they hydraulic pumps have a personality. But the engine noise is normal.

And as for ground clearance, there is a lot more of it than you think. Unless you are doing some seriously bumpy ground (like building large moguls for a ski resort) you are not going to have a ground clearance issue.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Oh, wait, you brought up the infamous PT Pucker. This is when you lift so much your back wheels come off the ground. While it adds a bit of stress to the wheel motors, they are designed for this and there are guys who drive around with the back wheels up when moving heavy stuff all the time. But we are talking very heavy stuff, lift capacity on these machines is quite impressive (altough lift height is not stellar).

 

[SpringHollow]

lift capacity on these machines is quite impressive (altough lift height is not stellar).

That is the one point that I have to disagree with. We have the large Power Tracs with 60 HP engines and we can only lift 1200 lbs which is not stellar at all. (the capacity actually seems greater than 1200 lbs to me - still need to test it sometime). However, being able to lift 1200 lbs sideways on a slope is extremely impressive. So it depends upon context.

I have done lots of digging and lifting with the mini hoes I have. The only time my back wheels raise up is when I am trying to lift something heavier than rated or the bucket curl breakout force is exceeded. And it is no big deal, you just move the lever back. The front wheels lift up if you you push down with the mini hoe - this is no different than with a regular backhoe which can lift up the back end of the tractor or backhoe in a similar manner.

Someone mentioned ground clearance. From my experience, it is better and worse than a regular tractor. Because the front end oscillates, the flat bottom, and the tractor's 4WD, it can go over things that surprise me. When it does get stuck, it is much easier to free. As mentioned in another thread, I did not actually buy the tractor for its slope capability in spite of the fact that I live on the side of a hill. My property has springs everywhere and the ground is clay. So the ground in spots is always muddy. In over 10 years of using regular tractors on this tractor, there was only 1 week that I was able to drive down the trails in the woods. Even in Winter with temps at zero or below, there would be soft spots. The Power Trac PT1850 has dual wheel capabilities and I can drive down the trails most of the year if I am careful. I have gotten the PT stuck about 4 times in 8 or so years and it was always in mud after multiple trips had churned things into a mess, not a clearance issue. A regular tractor would never even been able to make even one pass through those areas. Where the PT clearance would definitely be worse is like Woodland says, a serious mogul situation. Single "pot holes" are not an issue because the other 3 wheels pull you through. The other potential major problem is that the tractor steers by articulating (forms a "C") like some big front end loaders. On a steep slipper side hill, it is possible to get into a tight working situation where the tractor slides sideways a foot or two and you get a tree on the down hill side stuck in the middle of that "C". If there is no room, you might have to cut down the tree. Rare but I had to do it once with a small 4" tree when trying to do something I should not have.

I am a little surprised by the comment that fully tricked out, the PT is as expensive as a tractor. It should be. And most PT owners use their tractor much more than they would use a conventional tractor because it is so easy to change implements and it is so easy on the lawn.

Loud engine - I would say it is louder than a geared tractor. IMHO, all non-geared tractors are louder than ones that have hydrostatic transmissions or all hydraulic like mine because we have to run the tractor at a much higher rpm when doing light work than you would run a geared tractor.

Ken

 

[redman135]

A suggestion to maximise the effectiveness of the backhoe is to get a pick for it. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to deal with stumps, rocks and hard ground in general. I found it is excellent to break the roots out without digging a large hole the way you often do when using a regular bucket.

 

[millsan1]

I am no expert, but I do have very steep property and have been using my BX on it for a few weeks now.

I can tell you I am convinced the BX is part mountain goat. She handles the property very well and is a strong little work horse.

 

[SpringHollow]

I am no expert, but I do have very steep property and have been using my BX on it for a few weeks now.

I can tell you I am convinced the BX is part mountain goat. She handles the property very well and is a strong little work horse.

I am curious since I have heard the BX mentioned several times. How steep of a slope do you think you can safely go sideways on while doing work with your bucket?

Ken

 

[millsan1]

I have done work on a solid 15 degree side slope. I can't say I was comfortable, but the machine was fine. The only issue I have run into has been that when doing heavier FEL work, on a side slope, the front tires get a lot of pressure on them and can drop the bead. Pumping them up to the high end of pressure has helped, but it does happen.

Going up and down, I have worked on better than 25 degree slope and she handles like a champ. Again, my pucker meter is up there, but the machine was happy as a clam.

 

[SpringHollow]

I am quite impressed with 15 degree's so that is a nice setup. I routinely lifted ballasted tires on less than 10 degrees when lifting heavy dirt loads to dump into a truck and the New Holland tractor was not facing up and down the slope. And that was with the wheels all the way out and a 3 pt counterweight held low. I will let people know when they ask that they should at least take a look at the BX.

Ken

 

[Xfaxman]

Here is a visual of an 18 degree slope, serious Pucker Factor the first time I mowed it.

 

[SpringHollow]

Both your Bobcat V417 and Toolcat 5610 F look like very nice pieces of equipment. Also have very nice slope ratings. If you ever need more room to store things and want to give them away, .......

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

So today i had to get in a bit of mowing. I knew this section was steep but figured it to be in the 35 to 40. Actually it (according to my inclinometer so it could be wrong) is 45. I was just starting to turn up the hill and wanted to hop off and get a picture. I can run this angle and have with the bucket up and a load of something light. Would not run it with a bucket of rocks.

BTW, my tractor is NOT set up for this severe slope. It slides a lot and you have to crab to get her to stay straight. Setting up refers to no chains, great tires and pressure around 2 to 4 lbs in the tires.

 

[SpringHollow]

That is when you really appreciate the tilt seat!!!

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

No kidding, but bailing off the downhill side is like a 4 foot drop.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. We're getting close to a decision. So, because of our terrain, we're looking for a smaller tractor (22-24 HP) to get through tight spaces, but with enough weight and wide enough wheelbase to handle the grades, and enough power to handle our heavy clay/rock soil. FEL & BH. HST because accidentally jerking the tractor is gonna hit a tree or put a wheel somewhere I don't want it to go. 4WD of course. Cat 1 hitch. Used is not an option.

Tractors I have looked at so far:

1. Yanmar. Much cheaper than the competition but also lighter weight, less power, and no Cat 1 hitch. Not impressed.
2. Nortrac. Much cheaper than the competition and specs are good; heavy tractor w/ good power. However, no HST available, plus some concerns about maintenance/reliability.
3. Mahindra. Heavier and more powerful than the others; also lower and wider. The only 22HP tractor we saw that could lift itself off the ground w/ the FEL at idle speed.
4. Kubota, New Holland. These are relatively high, narrow tractors (not good for the hills), plus less power/weight than the Mahindra. I'm also hearing some RECENT issues w/ build quality & reliability.
5. PowerTrac. Small, low and powerful for its size. However, the bigger ones cost as much as a SCUT and are cash only. Extreme lack of ground clearance may be a problem too.
6. Simplicity Legacy. A kind of lawn mower on steroids. Has a lot of nice features and mows like a dream. But mowing isn't a priority for us; we live in the mountains and don't care about stripes, and when you add the FEL and BH it costs more than a SCUT w/ less power. Makes no sense.
7. John Deere. Saw these a couple days ago. I don't understand these new JDs. Extremely high tractor, no Cat 1 hitch, less powerful than the competition. Huge bolted metal plates everywhere, which make it look way beefier than the competition, yet it's a lighter tractor. How is that possible? True, there's a lot of flimsy plastic I could easily flex with my hand, and someone told me a lot of that metal is cast aluminum so maybe that's it. Probably the tractor least suited to our needs.
8. LS. Another high, narrow tractor. Good value though.

So, I guess we keep coming back to the Mahindra Max and eMax 22-24. I've looked at spec sheets till I'm dizzy and they just seem to beat every other tractor in their class for our specific needs.

I don't want to offend anyone with these comments. I'm simply a first-time tractor buyer with no brand loyalty, and these are my first impressions of these tractors (some of which may be wrong) plus "doing the math" based on spec sheets.

 

[tractorgp]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. We're getting close to a decision. So, because of our terrain, we're looking for a smaller tractor (22-24 HP) to get through tight spaces, but with enough weight and wide enough wheelbase to handle the grades, and enough power to handle our heavy clay/rock soil. FEL & BH. HST because accidentally jerking the tractor is gonna hit a tree or put a wheel somewhere I don't want it to go. 4WD of course. Cat 1 hitch. Used is not an option.

Tractors I have looked at so far:

1. Yanmar. Much cheaper than the competition but also lighter weight, less power, and no Cat 1 hitch. Not impressed.
2. Nortrac. Much cheaper than the competition and specs are good; heavy tractor w/ good power. However, no HST available, plus some concerns about maintenance/reliability.
3. Mahindra. Heavier and more powerful than the others; also lower and wider. The only 22HP tractor we saw that could lift itself off the ground w/ the FEL at idle speed.
4. Kubota, New Holland. These are relatively high, narrow tractors (not good for the hills), plus less power/weight than the Mahindra. I'm also hearing some RECENT issues w/ build quality & reliability.
5. PowerTrac. Small, low and powerful for its size. However, the bigger ones cost as much as a SCUT and are cash only. Extreme lack of ground clearance may be a problem too.
6. Simplicity Legacy. A kind of lawn mower on steroids. Has a lot of nice features and mows like a dream. But mowing isn't a priority for us; we live in the mountains and don't care about stripes, and when you add the FEL and BH it costs more than a SCUT w/ less power. Makes no sense.
7. John Deere. Saw these a couple days ago. I don't understand these new JDs. Extremely high tractor, no Cat 1 hitch, less powerful than the competition. Huge bolted metal plates everywhere, which make it look way beefier than the competition, yet it's a lighter tractor. How is that possible? True, there's a lot of flimsy plastic I could easily flex with my hand, and someone told me a lot of that metal is cast aluminum so maybe that's it. Probably the tractor least suited to our needs.
8. LS. Another high, narrow tractor. Good value though.

So, I guess we keep coming back to the Mahindra Max and eMax 22-24. I've looked at spec sheets till I'm dizzy and they just seem to beat every other tractor in their class for our specific needs.

I don't want to offend anyone with these comments. I'm simply a first-time tractor buyer with no brand loyalty, and these are my first impressions of these tractors (some of which may be wrong) plus "doing the math" based on spec sheets.

Just found this discussion. I posted this video on TBN last fall. I started to get fairly comfortable working the hill but wouldn't want to work on this kind of slope all the time

 

[Creamer]

Nice Summary! It sounds like you are looking at the right things for your needs.

I find the PowerTrac very interesting and certainly see it where it could be very useful. What frustrates me is that it is not "standard" in that you are limited to their implements which may or may not be what I want. I like felxibility because i do not know what I will be doing 10 years from now or even 5. Tractors kind of grow on you and I would have a very hard time changing that I have had mine 22 years.

Personally I prefer non-HST because I have a better feel and do not have to run the engine as fast. I like the quieter environment as well as I can hear other things going on. When I say better feel, I mean things like when I put the tractor in gear I know it should be moving at a certain speed and if it isn't I am getting wheel slippage rather than having to look and deal with the associated lag. This is just a matter of personal preference though and not of functionality. You need to get what you are comfortable with - I just wanted to point out what I consider a big advantage of a geared unit, being able to use all my senses. For the same reason I do not want a cab.

Although I do not have any experience with a Mahindra they sure do look good and a lot of people seem to like them. Consequently I do not think that they would be a bad choice. Have fun shopping!

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Just found this discussion. I posted this video on TBN last fall. I started to get fairly comfortable working the hill but wouldn't want to work on this kind of slope all the time

Nice video, nice tractor, and beautiful property.

Made me go back and look again at the BX, can anyone tell me what these rod-like things are--axle? steering control arms?--and how sturdy? Whatever they are, they're gonna be in danger of hitting rocks, stumps, dirt. This is one thing I look at on every tractor.

 

[millsan1]

I was leaning towards the Max myself, but ended up with the BX. I think either are fine machines.