Using bucket as work platform.

[patrick_g]

George, the macho-dumb cult predates the recent trend (recent decades) of victim/litigation/liability driven consciousness. Sounds plausible but just not fitting the chronology.

Easy Tom, you don't want to try to inject reasonableness where it is shunned. Don't try to confuse someone with facts when their mind is made up.

Paraphrasing an oft repeated line... Reasonableness... we don't need no stinking reasonableness.

Pat

 

[N80]

Just wondering,

What is the mortality rate? Some folks must have died doing this. I'd be very interested to know why and how. You guys seem pretty flippant about the subject but where there are safety warnings there are fellow tractor owners no longer among us. I think this thread desrves a little more careful commentary and a WHOLE lot more reflection IMHO.

TomK

Did you read the whole thread? At least the beginning? This thread, and numerous ones like it, have rehashed the use of the FEL as a platform many times. All apsects have been covered, especially the conservative safety aspects.

But come on, a good part of this post, which has gotten quite tangential (but still fun) is about how labels and warnings and manuals (which are more warning books than user guides) address a lot of things that should be common sense to anyone with any neural matter above the brain stem. I think a fair percentage of published warnings are due to real and unfortunate events. Some of those events happened to people who are so stupid that no warning would have ever saved them. A small, but significant percentage of those warnings are dreamed up by corporate lawyers and have no basis in reality or probability but are there for CYA reasons.

Patrick, yes, macho-dumb has been around a long time, but it is now been featured in several feature length big screen movies (Jackass, etc) and on at least one TV show (Dudesons). Often times the stuff that appears in the big media is a reflection on some cultural phenomenon, i.e. the Japanese monster movies of the 50's reflecting the fear of apocalyptic events over which they have no control such as nuclear attack. Just a thought, not something I can really defend.

 

[SkyPup]

You have to wonder if some of this macho-dumb fad is a reaction to the sterile, risk free, OSHA watched, tort driven, psycho-safety, everyone is a victim world we live in.

Only the plantiff's attorney would know....

 

[swines]

Patrick, I think the one thing you're ignoring or discounting is the fact that people can recognize a less than optimal safety situation and modify their work habits to accomodate the additional requirements needed to ensure they aren't injured.

For reference, in order to be in compliance with the work I do, I have to take a minimum of 6 hours per year of approved safety training courses on a variety of subjects - and nothing I do as part of my work can be in violation of the safety requirements. In 25 years, I've never been injured on the job, or had anyone of my co-workers injured.

BUT, a lot of the training is not so much for my safety, but to make the insurance and risk assessment people "happy."

I really wouldn't do anything that I felt was unsafe. I do recognize when a hazard level has increased, with the attendant increase in potential injury. In that case I take extra precautions to preclude being injured.

For example, I use a cabinet saw a lot without the blade cover and splitter/anti-kickback device in-place. Some people won't use a saw without a riving knife because they think the splitter is dangerous. Other people won't even use a saw unless it's one that has an automatic blade-stop device that totally prevents a saw from cutting a hand or finger.

I think it really depends upon your work habits. I don't want to cut myself, so when I perform cuts on the saw that cannot be done with the blade cover and splitter in-place, I take extra precautions in the form of feather boards, push sticks, and an assistant to help with feeding the wood. The work techniques and extra care are the preventive measures that substitute for the built-in safety devices on the saw.

I'm just really, really, really, extra careful and don't get my hand or fingers near the saw blade. In 20 years of using the saw, I've had ONE kickback and no injuries to me or anyone else assisting me - that's NOT luck - it's situational awareness, preparation, and care in performing the task. Therefore, I think it's fair to say - "I work safely."

Is that safe for everyone to do? Probably not, but other people's LACK of safety awareness plus the lack in ability to alter work methods to meet an increased hazardous situation doesn't somehow translate into an unsafe condition for me.

I've used a FEL on one occassion to lift a truss into place. One assistant rode the bucket with the truss while the other waited on a ladder to steer the truss into place. Everyone was well aware of the danger involved and we took extra precautions to make sure no one got injured.

If I needed a lift for work on a regular basis, I'd use forks with a lift cage meeting ANSI standard B56.1 The cages are readily available and only cost in the range of $400-$500. Or, if I had the time, I'd build a lift cage as they're not all that complicated to make to meet the standard.

But, if you want to be super-safe, you're supposed to use the cages with fall arresting equipment (body harness and lanyard). That prevents you from being really stupid and stepping out of the cage.

The question everyone has to answer for themselves is how far they want to go with safety equipment versus situational awareness and altering work methods.

If people feel safe using their FEL, and do so safely by altering work habits and taking extra precautions - while you may feel it's dangerous and would never do it - your level of safety "comfort" doesn't automatically translate to everyone else being unsafe or "macho-dumb."

 

[Egon]

BUT, a lot of the training is not so much for my safety, but to make the insurance and risk assessment people "happy."

Now that is several mouthfulls when it hits the bottom line.

Man baskets should only be used with an approved lifting device. A tractor fell is not in this category.

 

[swines]

Now that is several mouthfulls when it hits the bottom line.

Facts is facts - but, maybe I'm just cynical...

Man baskets should only be used with an approved lifting device. A tractor fell is not in this category.

Then what you're saying is no one should ever use a FEL as a platform for work - even in the safest manner possible. That's correct, but, in light of the posts in this thread, would you rather see someone using a cage or standing in the bucket???

(I understand the reasons for the FEL not being approved....I'm just pointing out, that there is a better way to use a FEL if one feels the need to do so on a regular basis.)

 

[rback33]

MY MIL didn't believe when I was reading the "warnings" that were printed in the instruction manual of my new cell phone "never dry phone in a microwave oven." She thought I was makin it up. You have to tell people this?

 

[Dusty]

The right tool for the job is always the safest. Accidents happen as a result of using the wrong tool or the correct tool wrong. If you work out of the tractor bucket, you might get away with it forever, or you might just fall out the first time. It only takes one fall to maim yourself for life. Why take the chance?
Dusty

 

[rback33]

The right tool for the job is always the safest. Accidents happen as a result of using the wrong tool or the correct tool wrong. If you work out of the tractor bucket, you might get away with it forever, or you might just fall out the first time. It only takes one fall to maim yourself for life. Why take the chance?
Dusty

I can give you an honest answer from my perspective... I HATE ladders. I feel MUCH safer working from a bucket where I have lateral movement than on a ladder. Loaders don't wobble and one of my most trusted friends is usually right there helping me. I will tell you I need to get a smaller saw to limb from the bucket with. My 290 w/ 20" bar is too big for that. Makes it too dangerous.

 

[Soundguy]

Now that is several mouthfulls when it hits the bottom line.

Man baskets should only be used with an approved lifting device. A tractor fell is not in this category.

Yep.. liability and risk and lawyers and warning labels...

that's "what it's all about"

Soundguy

 

[scott_vt]

SoundGuy, The better brands of peanuts contain mostly peanuts but many contain a lot of partially hydrogenated soybean oil, corn sweetners, and other stuff I'd rather not spread on my toast. There is food (REAL FOOD) and then there is synthfood made with all sorts of modified and our artificial ingredients. Unfortunatley there is so much synthfood on the shelves folks are beginning to think it is real food. At the current rate of conversion to synthfood I would not be surprised to see a warning label cautioning the consumer that certain "NATURAL" ingredients may be included in the manufacture.

Caution, this peanut flavored spread may contain trace amounts of natural peanut products!

Pat

Afternoon Pat,
Very good post ! Just this morning on TV I heard some knuckle head stating that they are starting to make food out of Cotton Whats next ?

 

[Egon]

Cotton Candy!!

 

[scott_vt]

Cotton Candy!!

Thanks Egon, Id almost forgotten about that stuff !

 

[N80]

Cotton Candy!!

Cotton Candy is not really made of cotton you know. It is actually made of polytetrofluorocarbapentahexastenedione.

 

[Dusty]

Cotton Candy is not really made of cotton you know. It is actually made of polytetrofluorocarbapentahexastenedione.

poly tetro fluoro carb a penta hex as tened i one

 

[SPYDERLK]

Patrick, Noting that the above quote is a partial, I agree with everything in it at face value. As for the deleted part I can't tell it you wrote tongue in cheek or head in _ _ _.!!! Darwin espoused evolution as survival of the fittest. The strongest, smartest, best (SSB) ultimately survive and dominate. Man has been able to utilize as well as circumvent the process by learning from the mistakes & failures of others, and relating some of that knowledge to even more humans. This is what allows the majority of humans ( not necessarily strong, smart, or good) to remain on the planet today. It also allowed barnyard animals to live long productive lives free of the threat of predators, albiet to potentially lose that life at any moment at the whim of a human. Wild annimals on the other hand had to be the SSB to continue to exist.The SSB simply use everyone else, in degrees at varying levels, to maintain the support system. The SSB evaluate risk & take action based on potential to gain vs. potential to fail. It's this risk/gain process that allows the worlds timid, weak, over cautious to live comfortable lives while contributing in their small way, or not, to the overall good. The "Darwin Award" is a creation of those that consider themselves to be among the SSB as examples of why they're better than everyone else. The fact that the timid, weak, over cautious often also perceive themselves in the SSB group don't make it so. While there are lots of people that lived to a ripe old age without ever taking a risk many have added little to society as a whole. Risk takers sailed to the new world, walked it'd breadth, and eventually flew to the moon. They are responsible for virtually every facet of life that divides us from the mud hut dwellers of other places.
Behind every hero is a dozen "Darwin" nominees and in between are thousands of plain folk that look at the potential for failure & persevere. Some win ,some fail, many that wouldn't have taken the risk (the week timid over cautious) ultimately gain knowledge.
To me that's what TBN is about, sharing knowledge, including painful knowledge, so others can benefit and ultimately become the SSB.
If you're in the barnyard animal category, please note no offense intended, there's room for everyone. MikeD74T

Very Good!

 

[patrick_g]

Egon, I suppose Russian Roulette is not so dangerous if you use a small caliber weapon and are extremely careful in pulling the trigger and have safety conscious helpers at hand.

Pat

 

[Egon]

Well -- lets say a cap gun might fit the bill.

But then again one should not try this game with a cap gun while sitting on a horse, in front of a horse, or in the waiting area of an airport!

Back in another lifetime I can recall a Cat 988 loader parked with it's bucket in the air. A hydraulic line broke and allowed gravity to do it's thing. Fortunetly no one was near by or injured. This same company [ dirt moving eqipment ] insisted all hydraulic operated pieces of equipment be solidy blocked before any work could be done on them.

Approved lifting devices are equiped with check valves to hopefully prevent a rapid descent.

 

[scott_vt]

Cotton Candy is not really made of cotton you know. It is actually made of polytetrofluorocarbapentahexastenedione.

Thanks N80,
Im glad there are some scientists out there to help all us LAYMAN through these technical questions

 

[SPYDERLK]

Cotton Candy is not really made of cotton you know. It is actually made of polytetrofluorocarbapentahexastenedione.

Dextrose?