Using GPS to lay out a field

[dodge man]

Machine control is pretty amazing, it’s also very expensive. Top of the line it controls the hydraulics of the machine. It’s common on dozers, motor graders skid steers and pavers. For paving you can even mix GPS in with a rotary laser and robotic total stations.

A good very simple example is cutting a new ditch. We survey it ahead of time and set some control points. We design the ditch in the office. The contractor takes the design and builds a 3D model. The is loaded in the machine, say a D6 bulldozer. They use our control point to calibrate their GPS to the site. The operator has a display and he follows the alignment and the machine tilts the blade and controls how deep it cuts. The operator often just uses the display as a guide to start. Say the starting cut is 30 feet. The dozer would drop the blade and try and cut 30 feet. Not going to happen so once the grade is close the machine takes over.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I work a lot with sports turf facilities. About 2 years ago, I met a guy who was from the Netherlands at the Sports Turf Managers Association conference. He had a robotic painter that would paint sports fields. He would enter a template on a Google Earth map, and the robot would automatically paint the field.

I wanted to become a dealer for his products here in the USA, but his company decided not to market their product here. I don't recall the name of his company.

However there is another company here in the USA that does market such a robot. Here is a link. Turf Tank - Intelligent GPS paint robot for all sports

I do some work with Baton Rouge Recreation (BREC) and they have used one of the Turf Tank robots. One of their facilities has 20 or more soccer fields that need to be painted on a regular schedule and this seems to help save labor and makes it more accurate.

It seems that your system could be adapted to do something similar. I think there is a huge market for such robots, and if you could build one for a reasonable price, I would be very interested in purchasing such a system.

Here is a good video of the Turf Tank in action. I work with the guys in the video on many projects. BREC and Turf Tank CBS News Story - YouTube

 

[npalen]

I'll bet that R2 and D2 could stripe a parking lot if given the opportunity.

 

[npalen]

Machine control is pretty amazing, it痴 also very expensive. Top of the line it controls the hydraulics of the machine. It痴 common on dozers, motor graders skid steers and pavers. For paving you can even mix GPS in with a rotary laser and robotic total stations.

A good very simple example is cutting a new ditch. We survey it ahead of time and set some control points. We design the ditch in the office. The contractor takes the design and builds a 3D model. The is loaded in the machine, say a D6 bulldozer. They use our control point to calibrate their GPS to the site. The operator has a display and he follows the alignment and the machine tilts the blade and controls how deep it cuts. The operator often just uses the display as a guide to start. Say the starting cut is 30 feet. The dozer would drop the blade and try and cut 30 feet. Not going to happen so once the grade is close the machine takes over.

The parallel between this mobile machine control and CNC machining in the shop is interesting. The CAD and CNC 3D world has so many similarities to GPS and earthmoving.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I work a lot with sports turf facilities. About 2 years ago, I met a guy who was from the Netherlands at the Sports Turf Managers Association conference. He had a robotic painter that would paint sports fields. He would enter a template on a Google Earth map, and the robot would automatically paint the field.

I wanted to become a dealer for his products here in the USA, but his company decided not to market their product here. I don't recall the name of his company.

However there is another company here in the USA that does market such a robot. Here is a link. Turf Tank - Intelligent GPS paint robot for all sports

I do some work with Baton Rouge Recreation (BREC) and they have used one of the Turf Tank robots. One of their facilities has 20 or more soccer fields that need to be painted on a regular schedule and this seems to help save labor and makes it more accurate.

It seems that your system could be adapted to do something similar. I think there is a huge market for such robots, and if you could build one for a reasonable price, I would be very interested in purchasing such a system.

Here is a good video of the Turf Tank in action. I work with the guys in the video on many projects. BREC and Turf Tank CBS News Story - YouTube

Well that's interesting! They beat me too it. Of course that system is $35,000. I do think this is the future, once you have the DGPS box to tell you your location to the centimeter it's pretty straightforward to have a wheeled vehicle follow a path. I expect this is just the tip of the iceberg. For example, I'd imagine the owner of those fields spends more money to have them mowed than to have them lined. It wouldn't be outrageous to spend $35K for a mower that could mow all day with no human. Of course you'd need robust obstacle detection and collision avoidance to keep from killing people.

I imagine as the technology improves the price will come down and we'll be seeing it in consumer products in a few years.

 

[npalen]

There are many farmers out there that could make use of sub inch precision for row crops but the cost is prohibitive for other than big time operators.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Well that's interesting! They beat me too it. Of course that system is $35,000. I do think this is the future, once you have the DGPS box to tell you your location to the centimeter it's pretty straightforward to have a wheeled vehicle follow a path. I expect this is just the tip of the iceberg. For example, I'd imagine the owner of those fields spends more money to have them mowed than to have them lined. It wouldn't be outrageous to spend $35K for a mower that could mow all day with no human. Of course you'd need robust obstacle detection and collision avoidance to keep from killing people.

I imagine as the technology improves the price will come down and we'll be seeing it in consumer products in a few years.

So? You've got about what? $1500? $2000? invested in your system? Why not invest another $2000 and put it into a battery powered painter, and sell it for $25,000 and be $10,000 cheaper than the competitor, and save the turf managers tons of money on time and labor?

I'm in....

 

[quicksandfarmer]

So? You've got about what? $1500? $2000? invested in your system? Why not invest another $2000 and put it into a battery powered painter, and sell it for $25,000 and be $10,000 cheaper than the competitor, and save the turf managers tons of money on time and labor?

I'm in....

Once you turn it into a business it stops being fun to tinker.

I used to work in technology. You've hit on why it's a dog-eat-dog business -- prices are always falling. Which means the new guy coming in always has the price advantage, he can enter at a lower price point. Plus you have to worry about Silicon Valley startup convincing a venture capital fund to give them $100 million so they can give the product away for free to "develop the market." And you have to worry about some guy in China ripping off your design and selling it for cents on the dollar.

If the DGPS chips are $80 each right now they'll be 80 cents before you know it. The guy selling the $35,000 paint sprayer is in for a rough ride.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Once you turn it into a business it stops being fun to tinker.

I used to work in technology. You've hit on why it's a dog-eat-dog business -- prices are always falling. Which means the new guy coming in always has the price advantage, he can enter at a lower price point. Plus you have to worry about Silicon Valley startup convincing a venture capital fund to give them $100 million so they can give the product away for free to "develop the market." And you have to worry about some guy in China ripping off your design and selling it for cents on the dollar.

If the DGPS chips are $80 each right now they'll be 80 cents before you know it. The guy selling the $35,000 paint sprayer is in for a rough ride.

You are probably right. Technology changes so fast. Enjoy your tinkering....

 

[BrokenTrack]

Machine control is pretty amazing, it痴 also very expensive. Top of the line it controls the hydraulics of the machine. It痴 common on dozers, motor graders skid steers and pavers. For paving you can even mix GPS in with a rotary laser and robotic total stations.

A good very simple example is cutting a new ditch. We survey it ahead of time and set some control points. We design the ditch in the office. The contractor takes the design and builds a 3D model. The is loaded in the machine, say a D6 bulldozer. They use our control point to calibrate their GPS to the site. The operator has a display and he follows the alignment and the machine tilts the blade and controls how deep it cuts. The operator often just uses the display as a guide to start. Say the starting cut is 30 feet. The dozer would drop the blade and try and cut 30 feet. Not going to happen so once the grade is close the machine takes over.

To me this is a silly use of the system.

GPS and whatnot has its place, but more for planning, like a contractor calculating what the overburden removal amount would be. Even that is a bad example because it is going to be what it is going to be, no more, and no less.

Using GPS and what not to establish where a ditch already is, like using GPS to find your way back home from the grocery store...you already know where it is, so why go high-tech?

As a sheep farmer I have run into this line of thinking when a Vet suggested I do Ultrasounding of my sheep so I could determine which ewes had singles, twins and triplets. The idea was, knowing beforehand, I could feed them accordingly to get a better survival rate.

It sounds good but...

Why not just feed ALL the ewes as if they were having twins, and save the cost of NOT having to Ultrasound? The extra cost of feed for ewes with singles is pretty darn low anyway, and what few triplet lambs I would lose, would be a lot less then the cost of ultrasounding. It just did not make sense because despite the cool factor of modern technology, it was not changing the outcome. The ram did his thing, and I was getting for lambs, what I was getting for lambs. High tech was not changing anything.

And it is the same thing with a ditch of a road. Why use technology to tell me what I already know..."jeesh look, there's the darned ditch." If it looks like a ditch, sheds water like a ditch, and is located on the edge of the road...it is probably a ditch...no technology needed for that.