Vacuum Pump Needed

[have_blue]

Been looking for a high volume vacuum pump. It doesn't need to pull a real high vacuum. My budget is $1, but if the pump is nice enough, I may be willing to go over budget by $100 or so. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

All I need to do is pull a 4" column of water about 4-5 feet upward. I need to slightly evacuate a 50' long horizontal section of 4" PVC pipe, with a 5' elbow to get it started.

I already have a Red Lion 3 HP gasoline centrifugal water pump. It has a 2" outlet, and it throws water like a fire hydrant. However, it's not good at sucking air, and it takes forever to evacuate the 4" pipe. I hate to run my pump with no water in it for the 3-4 minutes it takes to prime. I'm afraid the seals will get warm and wear out.

So, ideally what I need is a hand vacuum pump that takes a good sized gulp of air on each stroke, or perhaps a 12v electrical diaphragm pump with good volume. (but remember, a high vacuum is not needed)

I guess I can rule out any centrifugal pump, right? The ones I have seen just don't prime quick enough.

How about an old hand well pump? They seem to pull air and prime OK. A shop vac would do it easily, but I have no electricity.


Thanks for any ideas!

 

[SnowRidge]

Take a look here here and see if it might do the job. You can extend a hose off of the bottom to increase the depth.

I use one as a dinghy pump (or did, I no longer own the dinghy).

 

[chim]

Could you give more info? Do you have access to both ends? What does the pipe connect to? Is the water clean (as opposed to a sewer line, etc)?.............chim

 

[have_blue]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Could you give more info? Do you have access to both ends? What does the pipe connect to? Is the water clean (as opposed to a sewer line, etc)?.............chim )</font>

I'll answer your questions 1 at a time.

I have access to both ends, but that doesn't matter. I pump from a 2" fitting tapped into the main pipe at 90 Deg .

The water pipe connects to water in a pond on 1 end, and a drainage ditch on the other end.

The water is clean enough for any pump, but I wouldn't drink it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Remember, everything works great. The design is perfect. I'm just looking for a pump that is designed to pull air, and/or primes easier so I don't ruin my big pump. That pump is a hernia waiting to happen BTW.

Something like a big hand tire pump that works in reverse would be perfect. Something that would pull a mild vacuum on 50' of 4" pipe without killing me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[notamustang]

I dont know if this was what snowridge was talking about actually I dont think so. So going in a diferent direction what about using this pump to prime your gas pump ? I am not familiar with them but maybe a ball valve on the inlet and pump water in that way, or does it have a place to prime the pump itself, so you could get it started that way by hand pumping the water in ??? Like I said I dont know if this is gonna help /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steven

 

[have_blue]

Hey, nice! Almost exactly what I'm looking for. I figure 50' of 4" pipe has about 33 Gal of air in it. 4 strokes per gallon would take only ~133 pumps. I think I could handle that.

Here's another interesting one:

http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=15605

No per-stroke specs given, but it should only take ~3 minutes of pumping.

What I would really like would be a 12v sump pump with a hose pickup instead of a partially submersible type pump.


Thanks for the link SnowRidge!

 

[Jimbrown]

Well this is what I would do. Put a tee right in front of the inlet to your current pump. Run a short piece pipe vertically up to a ball valve. Another short piece of pipe from the valve into an adaptator may take several, inorder to have a 6 or 8 inch pvc pipe on top of the tee. Sort of a funnel. Then fill the large pvc with water and start the pump and then open the valve. Sort of self priming affair. I bet it will suck water in a matter of seconds.

 

[Henro]

What is the lay of the land like?

Is there any way you can use a syphon?

If you could run a hose to a point where the end of the hose is lower than the pipe you want to drain, then a syphon might work. Should work...Will work???

Just a thought...simple, effective and slow sometimes...

Now if that pipe continues to fill from somewhere...that could be another story...

AND if it is flat where you live, throw this idea into the circular file...here with our hills syphons can work real well. But you have to have the elevation difference...

 

[chim]

I misunderstood what you were trying to do. Looks like you already have good info to work with...............chim

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue"> Here's another interesting one:

http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=15605

No per-stroke specs given, but it should only take ~3 minutes of pumping. </font>

I've owned a Guzzler 500 or its twin before. It would do the job if you bolted it to something that wouldn't move, like a board with a couple of blocks sitting on it.

<font color="blue">What I would really like would be a 12v sump pump with a hose pickup instead of a partially submersible type pump. </font>

OK, Here is one: Fisheries Supply

It is a Jabsco 12 volt diaphram bilge pump. Rebuildable and can be run dry for hours.

 

[cleatus]

I was thinking PVC ball valve each end, tee with 2" riser with ball valve at top. Use small hose to fill 4" then shut off 2" valve, open others turn on pump. Just what I have done in past.

 

[mopacman]

you might try running a vacum line from the intake of a gas engine. they have ben used to pump septic tanks.....Larry

 

[DocHeb]

I presume what is happening is that the suction pipie empties after the pump turns off. Can you install a check valve at the end of the pipe to keep the pipe full of water?

 

[have_blue]

Yea Henro, it is a siphon. Priority 1 is to not ruin my big pump. Priority 2 is to not use it at all. It's a real back breaker.

I've proofed it out already, and the 4" pipe really moves some water. I used 2" hose before, and it worked great, but was too slow. The 2" had only a fraction of the 4" volume, so it was easy to prime.

I thought of the reservoir idea too, but it would take a lot of water! You can pour a 5 gal. bucket into the 4" pipe, and it's gone in a flash. I priced some check valves, and they cost more than a little 1" gasoline pump!

 

[WhiteRock]

I am not sure I can visualize your entire scenario, but have you thought about this?

Add a re-circulating circuit to the pump (this will be design on the fly /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). On your 2" inlet put a tee with a 3/4" reducer. Plumb this into a small reservoir (maybe your 5 gal bucket) filled with water. You will need a valve here. Start the pump. Route the pumped water back to the reservoir. The 3/4" restricter will cause a vacuum in the 4" pipe while keeping the pump lubricated. When the air stops on the output of the pump, you should be primed. Shut off the 3/4" input valve.

The 3/4" restricter's purpose is to starve the pump forcing it to pull air from the 4" pipe. Priming with water will make it an efficient vacuum pump. You might need to go with a smaller restricter.

This is just an idea. I have not validated this design. It should be cheap. You will probably have better ideas on the reservoir and plumbing. Two valves would be better (one on output and input). Then you might be able to use a piece of 4" pipe for the reservoir and leave a hole in the top for filling and an air vent. When the air stops shut them off. If you shut of the output first, you should have water for the next time.

I hope this make some sense....

 

[have_blue]

Hi Whiterock,

Well... you see, I' trying to avoid lugging on that 150# pump. My back is already sore. I want something cheap so I can just leave it down at the pond.

Your idea would no doubt work. I have to be careful about having multiple valves and other complications, cause it would have me jumping all over the place when the pump suddenly primed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bouncing your idea around, I'm thinking about threading a 1/2" pipe hole in my 2" hose fitting near the pump inlet (suction side) and stuffing a hose tightly into it from my garden sprayer. Keep shooting water to keep the pump full, and it should prime real quick. When it primes, I simply turn a valve, and voila! The siphon is going!

I still rather a 12v bilge pipe or a honking big manual bilge pump instead of lugging around that Red Lion back breaker. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm open to any ideas. The thundershower season is coming, and I need to keep my pond dry so I can work in it.

 

[WhiteRock]

<font color="blue">trying to avoid lugging on that 150# pump </font>

I thought the pump stayed put. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I didn't think my suggestion required the pump to move, but I know I am probably confused.

I think your threading idea should work fine. I think the hose attachment must not have an air leak, or the pump will never prime. I was trying to figure a way to catch and re-circulate the priming water in the event a lot of water was required to pull the air out of the long 4" line.

It is not clear to me how the bilge pump idea will work. With no check valve the water will just run back into the pond. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Would you just fill from the output side of the pump?

 

[Dirtnut]

put a foot valve on the end of your pipe like is on a well pump system and your pipe will always be full. when you hook your pump up you can fill the whole pump system up no air no primeing.

 

[have_blue]

WhiteRock,

I just ordered a manually operated bilge pump rated at 15GPM. I don't need a check valve if the pump will hold most of the air I pump on each stroke. If not, well, I'll have to get a little tiny foot valve or flapper valve. They have them locally.

Remember, I'm pumping air. when water comes out of the pipe, I'm finished. I just turn off the big valve coming out of my 4" pipe and it starts siphoning.

I'll post a picture to cut some of the confusion. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Soundguy]

What about putting a foot valve on the end of the pipe in the lake.. ( like on an above ground jet pump ) and then you won't loose prime in the first palce? Alternately.. if it did leak down, you could prime the pipie with a bit of water from a bucket.. etc

Soundguy