Varmit Rifle

   / Varmit Rifle #71  
Well heck Lane. If range isn't that important, get yourself a lever 44 magnum and a handgun to boot.

Ruger makes a lever and semi auto in 44 mag.

Marlin makes a great 44 lever.

Winchester also has a 44 lever but I think their qaulity has suffered somewhat.
 
   / Varmit Rifle #72  
"I am leaning toward a rifle that shoots a .357 or .44 round so that I could use the same ammo in a pistol"


Good choice... Take a look at the S&W Mountain gun for the .44 Magnum as well as that Marlin 1894 lever action.

Of course, since you mentioned "pistol caliber" and I've mention the Smith & Wesson Mountain gun, this thread will go for at least another 25 responses.
 
   / Varmit Rifle #73  
A Marlin in .357 or .44, 44 for bigger hog like stuff would work. I like the Marlin 94 lever action, have shot one in .357.

You are pretty much taking varmits out of the picture with this though.

Big-5 out here has lever action Marlin and Winchester 357 and 44's for $250-300 on sale fairly often.

$700 would get you a bolt gun with a scope of fair quality. that route could give a cartride that would do hogs or varmits.
 
   / Varmit Rifle #75  
Lsmith-

<font color="blue">...I had no idea that it borders on religion for some. </font>

Yes, yes it does. And just like in religion, there are a bunch of different schools of thought. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A couple of thoughts and questions to follow up on your latest post...

<font color="blue">I am leaning toward a rifle that shoots a .357 or .44 round </font>

Although I could see going with the .44 (more on that in a sec.), I'd suggest not going with the .357 as your primary varmint/hog gun. While again, a well placed shot from just about any cartridge will bring down a hog, .357 (even with the extra velocity/energy coming out of a rifle barrel) is going to be way to light in my book. The reason I say this is because a .357 in a (with roughly equivalent bullet weight) will only have about 70% the velocity and less than 50% the energy of a comparable round in .30-30.

The .44 Mag, depending on bullet weight, can actually outperform the .30-30 with regards to energy - hence it is a much better choice over the .357. You still have the rapid fall off in velocity/energy with the .44 (i.e. limited range), but again, compared to the .357, it is the better choice. Don't take my comments as negative criticisms of the .357 or .44 Mag (I shoot both) - just trying to point out some of the characteristics with regards to these cartridges and how they may/may not fit your intended uses.

<font color="blue">Range is probably not as important as stopping power. </font>

Depending on the cartridge you select you can improve both aspects at the same time. Other "big bore" cartridges available in a lever gun are the .444 Marlin and the .45-70. Both have considerably more energy and velocity than the .44 Mag (even when .44 Mag is shot from a rifle. (i.e. .44Mag < .444Marlin < .45-70)

Now, you won't find either of those cartridges in a revolver or such (well, except for the BFR but that's a whole different conversation), but if you want more energy & velocity (i.e. "Stopping power"), they both are considerably more powerful than the .44 Mag. and both will extend the useful range at which you can shoot. The down sides to them are that because they are big, fat bullets going at relatively low velocities (compared to other rifle cartridges others have suggested), they are going to slow down faster once fired and will have a greater "drop" over a given distance (i.e. you'll have a much more pronounced arc of the bullet path that you’ll have to compensate for with regards to aiming at your target.) Additionally, neither are known as “long range” cartridges. Other tradeoffs both of these cartridges have with regards to the .44 Mag include the increased recoil (substantial) and generally higher ammo costs.

I guess one of the questions I have is what type of range do you plan/want to shoot at/up to? I know initially you were talking about "reaching out and touching them" - but it now sounds like you are thinking that you'll be shooting closer in than you were first thinking. If you have an idea with regards to how many yards you'll be shooting at/up to, it may help focus the conversation a bit more.

I guess one other thing to think about is how much you want to approach your purchase from the "tool" side vs. the "desire" side. In other words, you could go completely "tool" and get something that would meet all (or most all) of the criteria you set out (range, accuracy, cost, etc.) but it probably wouldn't meet all your desires with regards to other less functional aspects.

For example, I personally like the look of wood stocks much better than synthetic - but there are inherent problems with wood stocks - problems I'm willing to put up with due to my personal taste. Something that you mention that sounds similar would be the potential practical range of the rifle vs. having pistol/rifle cartridge interchangeability. There's no "right" answer here - just something to think about and prioritize.
 
   / Varmit Rifle #76  
Re: Varmint Rifle

That is mine,a pre-1964 model.

I believe they made them in a
.243
.284
.308
.358
 
   / Varmit Rifle #77  
Re: Varmint Rifle

Ok, Lane, how about a .45 Long Colt. Loaded hot in a rifle it'll out perfrom any .44 Magnum on the planet. We'll confuse you at least as much when it comes to handloading, as we have with rifle/caliber choices. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / Varmit Rifle #78  
Re: Varmint Rifle

Now Id like to see the cartridges you have that can out perform a 44 mag that go through the pipe of a 45 colt. I like both calibers and have had many of each. Untill you set up a Bench and run a chrony to tell the truth you are just flyin blind off the manufactures tall tales on the boxes. If you take a gun in .45 colt and the same firearm, barrel length etc you can get a .45 to show nearly as well or even the same as a .44 mag. No doubts about that. But a 45 colt out performing any 44 mag is a REALLLY big streeeeetch. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Look up the Buffalo Bore ammo and its stats, Its about as Hot as you can get factory ammo. A 44 Mag can be uploaded to be a adequite elephant round. Not that I would want to. Based on the price of what is intended to go and the narrowed field I would certainly stick with a 44 Mag in the Marlin Lever guns. Again I am a Winchester fan but the new ones just are not worth poo doo. Pick a few up in a local shop and feel the 1/4 " +++ of trigger creep. Interestingly enough I bought one of the First Marlin guide guns in 45-70 about 5 years ago. The quality was really poor. They have Kicked it up a few notches in the quality department plus the are made in the USA. There are several Marlin Models available in 44 mag by Marlin. If you want to stretch some distance out for Varmits they make a Cowboy action rifle with a 24" Octagon barrel. I have one of the New Marlin Cowboys with a 20" round barrel. Its very light and they run less than $500 new, Add a set of rings/bases and a Nikon Fixed 4 power scope and you will be at $750 ish . The Nikon is one of the very few fixed 4x scopes left and it has the largest exit pupil with a 40 mm lens. One thing about the 44 mag is that nearly all rounds are hollow points. Solids are pricy and usually need to be premium bullets. Buffalo Bore is around $60 per box of 50. I dont plink with mine so 1 box lasts a lot of years. HP's are great for varmits but NOT for pigs. You do not want that bullet to splinter into slivers if you hit bone like the front shoulder, you want to penetrate it. Plus HP's destroy a LOT of meat. The 45 Colt is nearly all solid cast lead. Either way both are great calibers and lots of fun in a lever, There is just nothing cooler than the ca chink of a lever gun /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Dave
 
   / Varmit Rifle #79  
Re: Varmint Rifle

I agree Dave that .45 ammo loaded to SAAMI pressure specs for that cartridge cannot outperform .44 mag ammo loaded to its maximum pressure. However, if the pressures are equalized, the old .45 Colt is a real performer, easily outrunning the .44 due to its larger case capacity. Ross Seyfried who used to write for Guns and Ammo was a proponent of hot-loading the .45 and shot all manner of animals with it. With the .454 Casull however, there's really no need to.

I, for one, would never do it. 45 Colt brass is noticeably thinner than .44 mag. Now the structure of the gun is what contains the pressure, for the most part, but it just doesn't look like something I want to do or recommend.

My .44 mag pistol/rifle battery is a stainless Ruger Super Blackhawk with a 7.5" barrel and a Marlin 1894P, which is a lever gun with a short 16.5" barrel that is ported. Very cool and easy to shoot. Ruger also makes the Super Redhawk, which is a double action gun that is set up for scope mounting.

On the subject of bullets, I've shot several deer with 240 grain .44 mag Hornady XTP bullets. This bullet is available in factory ammo. The only one that failed to blast all the way through was recovered after going through a shoulder and about 4' of deer to end up in the opposite side rear leg. It retained 83% of its weight and was about 3/4" across. I wouldn't hesitate to use one on a pig.

There are also several sources of loaded ammo with cast bullets that are designed for general use/plinking. I suggest stopping by a full service gun shop or checking out a gun show. Last gun show I went to I ended up dropping a C-note on ammo. . . and I reload! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / Varmit Rifle #80  
I've used many different Guns and categorize them as the following: Browning/Winchester, Remington, & Weatherby
Less than 100 yards- 22 MAG
100-150- 17MAG
150-300- 222 REM
200-400- 220 Swift
400-800- 25-06
800-1200- 7mm MAG
 

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