Varmit Rifle

RobertN · Nov 22, 2003

Re: Varmint Rifle

From his drift of a one gun solution, I would guess he probably isn't reloading. So, a .45 Long Colt, while a wonderful cartridge with a colorful history, will not out perform a .44 Mag in stock form.

With reloading, you can juice up the .44mag a bit too... With the .45LC, you can juice it up, but that cartridge has relatively thin brass to go with its lower operating pressures. You juice it up, and you'r elooking at split cases, firearm damage, ect. That's why they came up with the .454 Cassul(sp?)

You can juice up a .45ACP, but same thing, weak brass and a known limit in the action. You will rupture cases.

MossRoad · Nov 22, 2003

Price is important and I expect I will spend $500 to $750 for a fair rifle. 

I am leaning toward a rifle that shoots a .357 or .44 round so that I could use the same ammo in a pistol. The lever action is another preference. (too many years growing up watching the Rifleman). 

Try here. Meets both requirements.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894_centerfireRifles/index.htm

LSmith · Nov 22, 2003

MossRoad,

Went out and shot an 1894SS today as well as a Winchester 30-30 and a Kimber 84m-.308 and a Navy Arms in a .357.
Have a business associate that found out I was looking for a rifle. We went to a local range he is a member of and shot his rifles as well as several of his buddies guns. Just like on this thread each one had an opinion and a favorite gun.
I was really confortable with the 1894 and didn't much care for the Navy Arms. At 100 yards I was most accurate right out of the gate with the .308 and the 30-30 was a close second. The 1894SS was a great rifle and while I wasn't as accurate with it, I was impressed with the feel and the action on the gun. I still haven't made up my mind, but I'm getting a better idea of what is out there. I am pretty much looking in the direction of a lever action in a .44 for $800 or less. I know that this is probably a compromise is several areas but I am finding out that there is really no "perfect" rifle for every task.
Again Thanks for all the advice and input from all TBN folks. Keep it coming I haven't made a final choice yet.

Lane Smith

MossRoad · Nov 22, 2003

Went out and shot an 1894SS today as well as a Winchester 30-30 and a Kimber 84m-.308 and a Navy Arms in a .357.
Have a business associate that found out I was looking for a rifle. We went to a local range he is a member of and shot his rifles as well as several of his buddies guns. Just like on this thread each one had an opinion and a favorite gun.


Always nice to take a test drive, isn't it? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RobertN · Nov 23, 2003

Picking a single rifle to do all things is hard. Kind of like picking a single implement to do all your tractor work.

Remember when you get a .44mag lever gun, it will be a great sub-100 yard gun. Past that, it does not have the oomph to push the blunt nose bullet fast enough. Your ballistics and trajectory will fall of really fast past 100 yards. Varmits will be waaay on the outside of your range.

You will get a different opionion from everyone who shoots. For example /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you want the all around rifle, you might think about a rifle cartridge; it will get you past the 100 yard range typically compared to a pistol cartridge. The compact bolt gun, with a 308 class cartidge will work pretty well on any North American game or varmit. It will not be perfect in all situations, but will cover most fairly effectively.

The 44mag lever will work good for short range critter, but is a less usefull all around selection.

It all depends on what you want to do. Your initial message indicated you wanted to do more than you appear to now.

You did a good thing going out to the range. In addition to trying friends rifles, many ranges have a few pistols and rifles they will rent.

gsganzer · Nov 24, 2003

1894SS, 1894SS, 1894SS! You'll love it! Great gun to carry behind the seat of your pickup. While a .44 mag may not be a long range gun, you'll do fine out to 100 - 150 yds. with light (200 gr.) bullets on hogs and such. I don't think hogs are especially skittish (like deer) so you should be able to stalk to within shooting range.

Docsknotinn · Nov 24, 2003

Does your budget include a scope or do you intend to use iron sights ? One gun I would suggest you look at if you like the Marlin is last years Marlin 1894 Cowboy 2 in 44 mag. This gun has a 24" Octagon barrel so it should offer more accuracy and a bit more distance at the trade off of adding about 1 # in weight. If you intend to use Iron sights there are many great replacement sights available that use a ghost ring or the glow style sights. The Cowboy 2 was origionally supposed to retail for around $700 but they are selling off last years inventory so I have seen several around $575 ish. A great buy as it has upgrades over the standard 1894. In regards to the others you tried the kimber should easily be the most accurate especially in .308 but thats a whole different price range than the Marlins. The Navy arms is a Winchester 1892 clone, That means no scope, ever. Puma makes a '92 clone now in 454 casull. I am currently useing the Blued version of the Marlin you tried and I paid less than $400 new. I have had a special order on This years 1894 Cowboy with a 20" octagon barrel for several months. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I agree with Fishman and others about the .45. A cool caliber but it lacks the utilitarian use of the 44 mag especially in bullet selection. Plus you can shoot the 44 special in the 44 mag tube for target practice, lighter recoil, less expense. The 44-40 can be loaded as hot or hotter than the 44 mag as well. There was NEVER a cowboy that carried a 45 colt for the same ammo as their rifle or carbine because their was simply never a historical Winchester or Marlin firearm chambered in that caliber. 38-40 and 44-40 yes, even 32-20. First introduced in 1873 for colts "peacekeeper" and adapted by the US army in 1875 it is a historically significant cartridge but I have always prefered those of the working cowboy who would likely have chosen a rifle or saddle ring carbine chambered for the same round as his side arm. if you are interested in shopping used you should take a peek at www.gunsamerica.com Dave

Egon · Nov 24, 2003

If you want to shoot hogs at 100 yards or so why not get a 12 bore with slugs. Do a much better job than just about anything else around.

And you can put a couple of double ohts in first so iifn the first three slugs miss you'll have a wider pattern as the oll hog gets close.

Egon

Slamfire · Nov 25, 2003

Re: Varmint Rifle

Seyfried addressed all your concerns in an issue of Handloader, I'll try to find the issue number. If you check with Wolfe Publishing, they'd probably have the back issue. The loads used heavier bullets 300 grains and up. While it took a special revolver, (large frame Ruger with a 5 shot cylinder) he found the loads to be safe in rifles. Said they were better than the Casull also, and the firearms were less expensive.

Docsknotinn · Nov 25, 2003

Re: Varmint Rifle

The following is from " Cartridges of The World " by Frank Barnes in regards to the Colt 45. " This is one of the most famous American handgun cartridges and still a favorite with big-bore advocates. As this is written, the 45 Colt has been around for almost 130 years and its popularity is still growing. It is extremely accurate and has more knockdown and stopping power than nearly any common handgun cartridge except the 44 magnum. It is a popular field cartridge and can be safely handloaded to velocities in excess of 1,000 fps with 250-grain cast bullets. Theese put it in almost the same class as the 44 magnum. Such loads should not be attempted except by an experienced person who fully understands what he is doing and who will ensure that those loads are only used in a firearm that will withstand the pressures generated. " I find the old Colt a intersesting study but hand loading at this level is not something the average lay person should just pick up a recipe for and do. It certainly can and has been done BUT it takes a lot of hours on both the loading bench and in front of a Chrony calculateing loads and double checking them. In years past it was not uncommon to see such articles in regards to the venerable 44-40. Now we rarely see theese articles due to the large number of antiques and black powder varients of this cartridge still in service. The same holds true for The 45 colt that was introduced in 1873 as a Black Powder cartridge. With the invention of the nitro or smokeless powders just prior to the turn of the last millenia the 45 Colt was converted to smokeless like so many others. a significant number of those origional Balck powder Framed 1873 colts were converted by the colt Factory in the 1950's to "smokeless". They received new barrels, cylinders, were re blued and often stocked with Ivory grips. Such loads would very likely have devastateing effects in any older fire arm such as this. All of theese Hot loads and even the Hot loads purchased over the counter such as the Buffalo Bore and Cor Bon should be used wisely in ONLY modern firearms that have specifically claimed they are proofed for such loads. The Marlin 1894 series easily falls into this class. Marlin is offering a Cowboy Competition Model this Year with a case colored receivor, Hand tuned and polished action, Preceison matched receivor and barrel. retail about $700. Its a real beauty but this one is not drilled and tapped for a scope like the other '94s . Any Competent gunsmith should be able to easily D/T the receivor for about $25.00. In regards to bullet selection I do recall in one of the Past Nosler reloading manuals that they offered a bullet for the Colt. The commentary on the caliber for Nosler was done by Hank Williams Jr who is a ardent firearms collector and a .45 colt fan. Dave