Vickers pump....

[mrcaptainbob]

I have a Vickers pump on my log splitter. The ram moves slow, sort of has power. The engine is a 16 HP running about a 3" pulley, while the pump has about a ten inch pulley. The inlet and outlet ports are one inch. There are no numbers on the casting. How can I tell what the volume and pressure of this pump is? Also, can this pump be run direct from crank spindle via Love-Joy coupling? That is, say, 3600 rpm's?

 

[PILOON]

No reason not to unless pump is too large for the engine and stalls it out.

1" ports do suggest fairly high GPM's so perhaps a 5" pump pully might do the trick, in fact that would double the speed and if stalling does not occur you could then direct couple.

My trackhoe is 5 hp and directly coupled!

 

[J_J]

If your 16 HP engine is running at 3600 rpm, then with that pulley ratio, the pump will be running at 1081 rpm. That rpm can turn a 1.7 cu in pump, and give 8 GPM.

Does your pump look anything like this.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009110714214048&item=9-1796-D&catname=hydraulic

There should be some numbers on it somewhere.

A 16 HP engine can run an 8 GPM pump, at maybe 3000 psi. To know the rated psi, put a gage on the pump and make the valve go into relief. This will at least tell you something close to the pump rated pressure. You have a lot of unknowns there. pressure, max rpm, volume, and you can back track some things and figure things out.

This data will give an example. A 16 HP engine can directly drive a .5 cu in hyd pump at 3000 psi, and pump 8 GPM.

Some pumps are capable of turning both directions. If so, then a Love-Joy connection can be used. I believe most small engine will turn counterclockwise, then the pump will have to be capable of turning clockwise , two shafts facing each other. If the pump is designed to only turn counterclockwise, then you can not drive it directly shaft to shaft. You can still do the pulley thing. Different size pulleys will change the speed of the pump.

 

[J_J]

If they used a larger displacement 1.7 cu in pump and geared it down, to produce a certain GPM, if you now connect it directly to an engine shaft, it would require 55 HP, and would stall it for sure.

mrcaptainbob

Is this a home made splitter?

 

[George G]

With both inlet & outlet being 1 inch. I would guess, you have a Vickers motor.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

A 16 hp motor running over a 3:1 underdrive on a log splitter. Sounds like somebody that really didn't know too much or built this from parts laying around. I would just drop the pump to a 3" pulley and see what happens. But, I would stand back for a few seconds once I pulled the cord.

 

[mrcaptainbob]

That is not the pump, J_J. This one is really old, as is the whole splitter. It is a home made splitter that I got from my son who got it from a friend, who got it from....well, I think it may go on for a few more. It's a rat nest of plumbing, as it has two controls. The one with the lever (Geeess..I need to take a pic of this!) that operates the cylinder is controlled by the lower one that kicks the system off, unless it's button is pressed by a tab on the cylinder shaft. There are so many 1/2" and 1/4" lines on this, it's hard to tell what's going on. The end of the cylinder is bolted to a large, 4" thick steel block filled with ports and cavities. The plan is to salvage the engine, cylinder and pump, add a new and up-to-date valve control and have a 'proper' log splitter.
I will put a new gauge on to check, as the existing is broken.
All the controls and relief mechanism are Sperry/Vickers.

 

[PILOON]

You stated that "inlet and outlet ports are 1" ", that suggests that the pump could be bi-directional.
Maybe that helps.

 

[mrcaptainbob]

Interesting. Could I tell if I opened it up?

 

[J_J]

If the pump is running and not leaking, I would not tear it down just to check. You might not be able to find the gaskets and seals. Can you not tell from how it was hooked up, which way it was turning.

 

[PILOON]

JJ is correct. Don't open it.

I'd simply turn by hand while introducing fluid in one port and see if it comes out the other and repeat in the other direction the same way.
In theory a gear pump should push both ways.
Inlets are generally a size larger than outlets to prevent cavitation but often sizing is accomplished by using a smaller adaptor on the outlet port.

Have fun, and good luck.

 

[mrcaptainbob]

Well, after closer inspection, I found the inlet port is 1" and the outlet is 3/4".
Here are some pics of the 'beast'.

 

[PILOON]

Qualifies for the "Rube Golberg" trophy!

 

[J_J]

I noticed a needle valve on the cylinder. I wonder why they needed to reduce the speed of the cylinder. Does everything work?

 

[mrcaptainbob]

It works. Just barely. The cylinder is a 4" x 20" and it takes it about eight seconds to make it's move forward. Same for retracting. It has almost as much copper plumbing as my house! Rube is a good description of this beast. It does have some good power, though. The whole point of this is to capture as much 'good' from this splitter to make a proper one. The engine is excellent. And I believe the cylinder, although only 20" will suffice for the way I'm cutting. That leaves the pump. Before I head on down the road to recovery I'd like to make sure of what I have to help in deciding what other stuff to purchase. Certainly a control valve is necessary, but since they're based on pressure and gpm, the need to know is important, pump-wise. All the old controls are Sperry-Vickers. The pump has raised letters 'Vickers' on it. No plate or numbers.
Thanks for the help and guidance. Will post pics of when new splitter is being assembled to ask for hose requirements and such.
Thanks again.

 

[J_J]

I believe I see galvanized fitting in the plumbing. Therefore I believe the pressure is probably around 1500 psi, and a 4 in cyl, with a 2 in rod, will produce about 9 ton. Also, the pump seems to be driven on the flywheel end, and that is turning clockwise. So if you want to drive the pump directly, you will have to mount it on a pump mounting bracket, and use Love-Joy connections. Since you don't know the max rpm of the pump, and it was geared down to run slow, about 1000 rpm, you might have a problem with pump displacement. The engine might not be capability of driving the pump, because torque was achieved by gearing. Driven directly, you don't have that torque. This is all conjecture, because we don't know all the particulars. The newer Vickers pumps can run at 3300 rpm. A faster rpm on that pump will give more GPM, about 3 times what it is now, if the pump can handle the speed.

You might work out a new budget with new parts, and weigh the new parts with adapting what you have. A new 2 stage 13 GPM pump is about $130, and log splitter valve is about $60.00. mounting, $30 to $70. Love-Joy about $25., then hoses, fittings.

 

[Willl]

Here are some pics of the 'beast'.

Oh my.

 

[George G]

That would be a V-104-?-10. In place of the ? would be Y (1gpm), E (2 gpm), G (3 gpm), A (5 gpm), C (8 gpm), D(10 gpm). If ypu can see between the motor and pump, you should be able too see the arrow(Direction of rotation), under that, the model #. The Y, E, G & A are rated for a max speed of 1800rpm, the C a max of 1500rpm and the D is a max of 1200rpm. All are rated for a max of 1000psi.

 

[mrcaptainbob]

WOW! You got all that from those pics??! Well, I had the pump off and looked real close at it. All I could see was a faint 'Vickers" image. I will look a LOT closer at it now for those markings. However, if it is what you say it is, the fact that it's only putting out 1,000 PSI is not good enough. Am surprised it did as well as it did, then. It may be that all I can salvage from this machine is the engine. Will investigate further...
Thanks.

 

[George G]

Just because it was rated at a certain speed or psi. Don't mean thats what it was being run at. Not recommended, But, It could vary well been run at say, 3000 rpm and 2000psi. Could run like that for years, or only a couple of secounds. If it was me, I would put a gauge in line and see what the psi was. Plus, I'd run it at whatever speed, time how fast the cylinder extends, then figure out what the gpm was.