Voltage Drop for 750 feet advice needed

[Deere Dude]

When I was looking into it, some good advice I received here was to have the electric co come out and take a look... They gave me some great advice... free.
2nd, I opted for an electrician. Yeah, I could have done it myself but they knew exactly what was needed. Not oversized and not under. Plus the measurement was on them, you don't get a 2nd chance at getting the length right and that can be an expensive mistake... They also had the block and tackle to do the conduit pull and watching him wrestle the 4/0 into the breaker box was a job.

I hear ya about not wanting another meter... I hated paying the extra $22 per month meter fee. Will it ever payback? Maybe 25yr... But I also wanted to move the pole away from my cabin...

I have a barn and outbuilding between the house and the road that can be used for a workshop. A pole is right next to the barn. 600 ft. from the road to the barn and then 600' to the house. A transformer is on the pole by the barn with a run to the barn which is all good. The rub is, they want $50 a month just for the service and then commercial rates for electricity. The previous owner had them pull the meter and I haven't reinstalled it because I though $50 a month was nutso. Now I run a generator for lights and small tools, but sure wish a meter was doable cheaper.
I remember figuring out what I would need to go 600' from my house but it seemed very high considering the line loss of that distance.
If a meter is reasonable, I would go that way.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've been searching online for the answer and was hoping for a miracle from somebody on here, but it's looking more and more like reality is going to decide what I will have to do instead of what I want to do.

It's going to be a few weeks, but the electoral supply house is on my list of stops to make to see what they have to say. They have an in house electrical engineer to will do all the calculations and design what I want for free. Then of course, sell me what I need. LOL After talking to him, I'll either do what they recommend, or contact the electrical company. I've learned that the electrical company does not do any design work. They will install the poles and run the wire, but that's about it.

I'm still working on the floor plan for the building, and that's going to take some time because I'm still trying to get with caterers, bartenders and event people for their input. Even though I'm years away from building it, the planning is all consuming.

Thank you
Eddie

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

Check with power company and see what they would do for you. either overhead or underground. when adeer blind has power we call it a condo stand:cool2:

 

[EddieWalker]

Talking to my dad about this, he said that he thinks we need a transformer too. What I didn't know is that you can put the transformer after the meter and raise the voltage for the run, then drop it down again. Is this right?

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't know what I'm talking about with the transformers, and I don't know what you guys are talking about. My only knowledge of a transformer is it reduces the power before it goes to the meter down to 240 volts, 200 amps. Then the power goes through the meter into the panel.

I have a 1,200 amp panel with six 200 amp breakers. I'm using three of those breakers right now. I have three breakers open. I need to get electricity to my deer blind, which is just over 700 feet away, so I'm thinking 750 feet of wire to get from the breaker to a box that I'll mount in the deer blind. This is going to be a point where I can then run another line to where I build the reception hall that I will rent out to people for weddings and events. Until I build that building, I need electricity at the deer blind because I'm going to convert the bottom 8x8 area into a bathroom with heat and AC. I will also run power from there down to my wedding gazebo. Probably 10/2 for a 20 amp circuit for lights, fans and a sound system. Just a couple of outlets.

I don't have a budget, I'll pay what I have to in order to make it happen. I'll install all of it myself, that's easy.

Can I do it from the breaker at my meter and still have enough power for everything needed in the hall? How much loss is too much when starting out with 200 amps? If I lost 25 percent, does that mean I'll have 150 amps available at the hall? What if I lost 50 percent? Will I have 100 amps available?

I have three breakers that are empty. Can I run two lines from two breakers and use two panels to keep them separated? or does that matter? One panel will be just for the AC, and the other panel would be for lights and outlets.

Think of me as a child when replying. I don't know enough to know what I don't know.

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[buickanddeere]

The conductors suffer voltage drop which will lower current if the load is a fixed resistance. Electric motors will tend to draw more current to maintain the same volt amps. This compounds the VD problem to as degree as the higher current now increases the VD further.
Stepping the voltage up from 240 to 600 at the utility service and back down from 600 to 120/240 at the hall will reduce VD on a cable to 2.5 times less by decreasing the current by 2.5 times and increasing the voltage 2.5 times.
Two new 50KVA transformers are not cheap but they maybe cheaper than 600mcm AL ? They will consume a small amount of power while idling but very small.On occasion used transformers show up from remodeled buildings.

 

[dstig1]

As B&D noted - it is not amp drop, but voltage drop that gets you. You don't lose amps, per se, you lose voltage, which causes problems. If the voltage loss is too much, you have BIG problems. 3% is considered max OK but 5% loss can work too, especially if you don't have big motor loads. Motors die due to low voltage.

There are a million voltage drop calculators online. A couple options: Voltage Drop Calculator Voltage Drop Calculator JavaScript Play around with some figures yourself to give an idea of what you are up against. My quickie look says 750MCM Alum wire for 600'. The guys at your local electric distributor are going to think you are joking at first when you say 750MCM... That is for the straight 220V run.

Transformers are exactly what they say - they "transform" electricity from one voltage to another. This can go up or down in voltage. (I'm keeping this simple) They work both ways, though you want one rated for the direction you are looking for. You can find a transformer that will kick the voltage up to a few hundred or thousand volts so you can run it a long ways (step up transformer), and then you put another step down transformer at the other end to knock it back down to 220V. This is exactly what the utility does but on a much more massive scale. But the fact is that it does get a bit more complicated here and this is where it may be wise to find a qualified electrician or engineer. And I don't often say that... If you want to do the research and learn then i bet you can figure it out, based on many of the things I have seen you post, but dealing with high voltages does create some additional risk over regular 220V, so think carefully here.

Hope this helps.
-Dave

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you, that helps a lot. Now when I go to the supply house and talk to the engineer, my expectations will be more along the lines of it's probably not going to work the way I want it to, and adding another meter is looking more and more likely.


Eddie

 

[TheGoose]

The reason behind the transformer is that when you go to a higher voltage the amps go down and you can thus use smaller wire. So what the guys on here are telling you is that it may be a better option to use the transformer (one to step it up, and then one to step it back down) to reduce your wire size (and thus cost). I have no idea what a transformer would cost.

If it were me I would call out the pro's and get 2-3 different opinions. Also, another option is to have the power co run high-voltage directly to your building underground and then have a single transformer at that point. You would be paying for another meter but it would keep the overhead lines from being present.

 

[techman]

Transformer is a great idea, from a technical point of view. The issue you will face is that the wire will need to be rated for a much higher voltage. The wire, splices, connection points, etc all become more critical, and expensive when rated for high voltage.

Paul